I know there are a few on here that share my obsession with weight reduction. Let's hear about some of your favorite blanks with their weights and the built rod weights.

My favorite and lightest so far is a 7' mh built on a Rainshadow XSB843 blank. I built it with a split grip, split seat and micro guides. The blank weighted 1.65 ozs and the rod weighed 2.8. I dropped my first one off with a customer this week that's a Loomis GLX lover and he said it was the best rod he's ever fished with. He couldn't believe how light and sensitive it is and ordered 6 more.

check the phenix blanks they are one of the lighter one on the market

Robert, I am with you completely. The completed rod weight targets can being significantly lowered, by use of the micros, for all rods in the bass market. Using the build techniques you describe we are building frog rods and flipping sticks (7' 3") under four ounces. A seven foot 5 power bass rod can be delivered well under 3.5 oz. The right blanks using current available custom build techniques places all custom builders are in a position to capture the sensitive side of the market using many different blanks. I am now able to build several technique specific rods without the need of adding butt weight for balance.

I think the best lesson I ever got from anybody concerning building bass rods came from Bobby Feazel - buy a digital scale - use it - believe the numbers - change current styles to lower weight - lower weight will make any blank more sensitive. Weigh everything before and after prep and record all numbers - do not trust all published numbers to be consistant - most of what we use is hand made and the difference can be significant.

Example: How many grams do you think this removes?

[www.rodbuilding.org]

We can now build rods with multi modulus blanks that are light weight and sensitive and still maintain durability on the more powerful rods required for many tasks.

I was very fortunate last week in having a customer who took a GLX MB 843 with conventional split grip build and Alconite standard and a Castaway XP3 MB 844 with micros - fished three days with both - phone call says do not order any more Loomis blanks.

Bill,

Are you building spiral wrapped rods are conventional with the micro guides?

Bill,
I can't tell you exactly how many grams trimming down the seat removes, my scale only goes to .1 of an oz, but I can tell you it cuts seat weight by about 1/3 from just under an ounce to just over half an ounce. You were my inspiration to try splitting my own seats. For anyone else that wants to try it, the Castaway seats Bill sells are the best and easiest to do.

Another lightweight example, I built out an 8' Castaway medium popping blank (IP804) as a crankbait rod and it weighs 3.5 ozs fully built with heavier eva grips.

Another blank on my list to try is the Castaway 904 7'6" mh which weighs 2.4 oz. I'll use it as a flipping stick and it will weigh about 3.5 ozs fully built.

Zachary,
Bill will probably see this and answer for himself, but from my conversations with him, I believe nearly all of his micro guide rods are spiral wrapped. Until recently, I'd guess they all were, but a fishing trip with another builder made him reconsider.


Special thanks to Bill, Bobby and all those guys on here that push the envelope and inspire us all. I can tell you from my conversations and emails with Bill, he's always willing to help. He and Lance also sell some great blanks and components through their site, swampland.com.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2008 05:12PM by Robert Russell.

Both ways now - all micro on top, as per Bobby Feazel, for long overhead casts where tip of rod is down at end of stroke - best with braid and a good reel - as they say in Jaws - get a bigger lake!

Bill,
Take a look at the new Alps guides. I have not weighed them against the micro guides but I have compared their weights to conventional guides and they are about 50% lower.

Interesting thread. Been wondering when we micro bass fishermen would start this discussion.

Suggestion for future reference: Since there is so much discrepancy in blank weights why don't we simply compare the weight we add to a blank rather than comparing total weight? At least we can learn from each other how to reduce the grams.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

Robert, per an earlier thread, be really careful about mentioning light rods and sensitivity in the same sentence or even the same paragraph.

Just to support what you already found out, we delivered an 11' 2pc surf rod to a guy two weeks ago and it weighed about 1/2 of what he expected. He went to the beach the next day to fish a surf tournament and landed the bigest fish of the day, a really nice red drum, on a KastMaster. He proved a rod like that lets you fish longer without tiring, and that it can be used for slinging and working hardware as well as bait.
It also supported and our discussion that he could throw 4oz 120yds or so, and as a result we sold another one to a buddy of his who was there, today.

I still maintain there's a point of diminishing returns in the chase after the Holy Grail of weight but I believe that anyone can build a decent rod that easily weighs considerably and noticeably less than the store-bought stuff and that it does indeed make a difference to the customer, especially to someone who has never had one like that before.

Congratulations on the order!

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Bobby-
That's an excellent point...we have no control over what the blank weighs without shortening it. That leaves the goal at adding as little as possible. I think these ideas are allowing people like me to build better fishing rods from blanks that are not the lightest and most expensive. Turning sow's ears into silk purses.

Chris

Russ if I read your posts correctly one of the 40 size rings you use on a surf rod will weigh more than 12 sets of micros on a bass rod - this thread concerned bass fishing and lighter equipment and Russel is commenting directly to the content of the thread. He is quite sensitive to the content of all the posts on the subject. Have you built a surf rod with micros and caught a bass?

Bill Stevens



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2008 08:43PM by Bill Stevens.

Bobby,
Good point (and excellent web site). Since I had a little something to do with what custom and commercial bass rods are starting to look like - here are some numbers - I can't remember if I put them in the articles or not.

For my designs:

Spinning - SSG-TN handle, add 1 ounce to the blank weight for finished weight (Fuji SIC guides).

Revolver - add 1.25 ounces to the blank weight for the finished weight (Fuji SIC guides) & RF-lite reel seat.

I haven't had a chance to weigh a set of the Micro guides VS Fuji Titanium SIC 's- but I will and add the numbers to my blue note book - which I intend to sell to the highest bidder next spring. It contains every step and test I made in trying to build better custom rods for bass fishing. Every page is now full and there is no more room - time for the next generation to step up and advance on what I've done. I'll be out fishing or on a cruise somewhere with the wife.

Rich here are the actual weights from earlier correspondence with Bobby F.

10ea - Fuji LSG 3.5's - 0.42 grams
10ea - Fuji TLSG 3.5's - 0.41 grams



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2008 08:54PM by Bill Stevens.

Emory Harry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill,
> Take a look at the new Alps guides. I have not
> weighed them against the micro guides but I have
> compared their weights to conventional guides and
> they are about 50% lower.
Emory,
Which of the Alps guides are you referring to? Though I'm using the micros much more now, I still use Am Tacs titanium for full size guides and am always interested in other options.


Build out weight for my micro setups on a 7' rod is between 1.1 and 1.2 ozs. This includes 9 guides, a tip top, hook keeper with about a 2" epoxy sleeve under to protect the blank, split reel seat with epoxy ramps and a split cork grip. Switch to the Am Tac full size guides and it really doesn't change things. I'd guess they add about .05 oz with the extra weight and thread but my scale doesn't weigh under .1 oz.

Thanks for all the info guys. Let's keep it coming.

Robert R

Your finished weights are indeed impressive, keep pushing the envelope and sharing the information please.

My database showing every blank weight that comes thru my shop and every finished rod weight that goes out (based on a scale that reads ounces in 1/1000") , the best delta (on average) for a 7 foot 0 inch, "medium heavy" (that's the description of the manufacturer not mine) is 0.785ounces. That includes 9ea Fuji LSG 3.5 guides with A thread and minimal epoxy, 1ea Fuji BFAT 4.5 tip (modified) with thread and epoxy, 7ea shaped cork rings (5 above, 2 below), 1ea - 1/8 inch rubberized cork ring for butt protection, a two piece (skeleton) Fuji ECS reel seat with epoxy ramps, 1ea custom made hook keeper with 1 inch epoxy protection sleeve and a 4.5 inch long 360 degrees decal fully encased in epoxy.

I can think of a few places to shave a few more grams without sacrificing functionality but not many. Can you?

And Robert, you are right, customers are absolutely amazed at the apparant difference between these rods and what he is accustomed to.

And yes, Russ, there is a point of diminishing returns.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

Bobby the "Shocker" you sold me had a partial decal which was not fully encased with straight finish cut lines around the edges. The day I bought it I thought you were not a very good builder because you did not even take the time to fill the voids in the cork pieces. Now I find out that you are tinkering with a new decal system - Please don't tell me that the metallic appearing print is lighter weight. Times do change!

Does anyone have the weight reduction numbers on a seven foot gloss or matte black/blue new blank finish stripping?

If anyone decides to move off into the "World of Helium" please provide prior notice of market entrance of the "Airhead Rod Series".

Poor Steve G must be fishing - with all this going on I hope he wins!

Bill Stevens

Bill;
That was a good assumption, I was fishing a tournament. With you pulling for me I did win and won angler of the year to go along with it.

I would say that switching to Micro’s was one of the top 3 best things I’ve ever done to improve performance, lighten up a bass rod, shift the balance point further back, and increase sensitivity.
You alluded to something that I think is overlooked by some and its value underestimated by many.

“new blank finish stripping”

Although I only strip blanks where it does not change the warranty situation, and on rods that I am looking for the utmost sensitivity on; like slack line techniques. There is a very valid reason for doing so.
Yes there is a slight weight reduction which helps, but the main reason I do so.
(The material that the finish itself is made out of.)

For any finish to have the flexibility and stretch to stay put on a blank it must have a certain amount of rubberized type component. And that in itself dampens some of the vibrations that would travel down the blank to the fisherman’s hands.

I know many will consider that just splitting hairs, but If you change enough little things to improve a rods performance? The end product is a greatly improved tool to fish with.

First.. congrats on AOY Steve!

Second: "I know many will consider that just splitting hairs, but If you change enough little things to improve a rods performance? The end product is a greatly improved tool to fish with."

Well said. I think everyone gets hung up on micro discussion only. Reel seat only. Etc. They forget to look at the big picture a lot of the time. One tweak here, one there, all adds up to a whole lot.

I know a lot of folks look at bass rod builders as an extreme (maybe eccentric) group, but the fishing is different, the techniques are different, and there's one heck of a lot of money on the line for a lot of us and our customers. You're talking about guys that have $1000 in a prop (cost + blueprinting) to get additional mph knowing that if they bounce that prop off something under the surface it's toast.

I compare it to the pro baseball players and the Occular Improvement exercises.. anything to fine tune and gain a competitive advantage. It's a package deal.

-----------------
AD

Steve: Congratulations and a Big High Five for the Award - Onward and Upward - Don't forget all of us when you get to the top. It would really tickle me if one day I can look at you on TV on Sunday and say "I knew that guy once upon a time"!

Sure glad someone noticed my mention of blanks surface noted above. Glad to see that someone else has gone to the trouble of the finish removal. After really working with the Lami XMGs and the Loomis GLX I realized that one of the upgrades of these blanks was related to the no finish polished surface. Bobby also required a blank with natural surface. I have quite easily stripped and successfully polished some of the Swampland discount blanks and it made a measurable weight reduction of the blank and major impact on the build and "feel" of the finished rod.

Bill
Thanks!
The high end blanks with out finish were the thing I noticed that got me to thinking; Why the most expensive blanks would be finish-less.
They go through great expense and lengths to make the cheaper blanks look pretty, then why scrimp on the best of blanks?

My conclusion was the same as yours (That it must improve blank performance) which I found to be the case when I started stripping my own and comparing them to the same painted blanks.

The only (and just minor) down side to stripping I have seen. Is that it moves the balance point a tad forward because there is more paint toward the butt then the tip do to the larger circumferences.
But in my opinion the overall improved performance is well worth the difference.