Given the build features of a swimbait rod, 12" handle, 3 - 4" foregrip -

Are these blanks designed to handle a grip further up? I can see the angler having that rear grip under his arm, the foregrip in hand, and setting the hook. Front cand could be as much as 19" (on an 8' rod) from the butt of the rod. I'm seeing this as the lever point when that hook is set.

Is there a chance with increased breakage? Could you consider this high sticking?

I may not be communicating my concern correct. Any thoughts?

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I believe the definition of high sticking is holding the rod with the tip pointing up too high to where the fish will load the rod and cause it to bend past 90 degrees giving it a load it was not designed for possibly breaking it. I know what you are asking is wether the rod is sufficiently strong further up the blank away from the butt to apply the leverage force caused by a longer handle. I don't see where it would be a problem, but Tom K. or another with more engineering experience than me could answer better.

I use a GUSA 80 Mega Mag for my SW bottom fishing, it's a dual purpose blank which is very popular for FW Swimbaits outin the big reseviors out West. 20-40#, rated 1-5oz but will cast more. I put a 7" foregrip on allthe rods I build, adn teh butt varies between 12-15". The blank is fished with a drag almost locked down, 65# Braid & 50# mono, and I promise you aren't high sticking worse than I do. We fish straight up and down, adn my hook set goes from teh 9:00 position up and over to the 1-2:00 position. basically we hook the fish, and drag it up off the bottom before it knows waht hit it this way it can't run into teh rocks or sunken ship it lives in and about.

I'm not speaking for any other blanks besides than one though.

I'd debate that. I don't think it's the rod being bent past 90 degrees. I understood high sticking to be holding too far up on the rod causing the flex (and resulting stress) along the blank to be distributed differently than intended by design - not the angle of elevation of the rod.

If a blank is designed for a 10" handle, but has that handle pushed out and used 8" further up the rod, that may be enough to cause a different flex in the blank than designed. I n my mind, not really any different than grabbing the rod blank a foot up the rod over the handle(seen most often when flipping one in the boat, etc)? Seen plenty snapped off like that.

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Alex, debate it all you want, just go to the library under eliminate broken rod, page 5, first paragraph. Tom K. writing will give you all you need to know about high sticking. What you are refering to is high reaching. "The rod tip bends
over and past 90 degrees and the angler just winches
away on the reel, keeping the rod up high and with a
tight bend in it. This is often referred to as “high sticking,”

Alex, in my scenario, my grip and my hand is a lot further up teh rod than a FW guy, as I set the hook with one hand on teh foregrip, and the other near teh butt cap. I also swing, lft, or bounce teh fish into teh boat if the fish is under 10#'s, adn the boat I fish is about 8' bove the surface of the water so I basically let teh weight of the fish load the rod up and cast teh fish straight up into my chest.

OK, I stand corrected. Replace my "high sticking" with "high reaching"...

That article addresses part of my question in that it says "the tendency is... to reach up, shortening the lever... but it's also tough on rods... isolating the much weaker mid or tip section with that same pressure , you're going to break it."

But I still am asking... "Given the build features of a swimbait rod, 12" handle, 3 - 4" foregrip - Are these blanks designed to handle a grip further up?"

If so to get accurate CCS numbers, wouldn't you want to factor in the longer handle if designed for such?

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That's more of what I'm talking about Billy. Out of curiousity, about how far above the reel is your hand when you're slingin' fish?

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Alex,
Listen to Greg. Here's some other thoughts. Build the rear grip 14.5 inches - fore-grip, whatever length the customer wants. Swimbait blanks are Salmon Back Bouncing blanks designed for 20-40 lb lines and 20-60 lb Salmon in streams - using the back bouncing technique. Blanks are usually for 1-5 oz or 2-8 oz . These powerful blanks have been renamed for the bass guys - not redesigned. Let them use it any reasonable way they like - 20-30 lb mono is best for swim baits - but if they want to use 65lb braid and try to swing a 10+ bass into the boat - (not a good idea) but it will make for a good story later - win or lose.

Reaching up on a Flip stik to swing a fish - works if you know what you're doing - breaks rods if you don't. Reaching up on a powerful back bounce rod to swing a 10+ bass with a mouth full of treble hooks on a swimbait is not a reasonable way to boat that bass. The angler or anglers in the boat are in more danger than the fish - if those treble hooks tear out under load - they might find new flesh to penetrate, end of fishing trip.

I'm listening... and asking...

So the rods are built differently. Not even for Bass. I knew a few of the brands have marked the same back bouncing blank as a swimbait blank, but wasn't sure if that was just marketing, design, etc. That's what I was after if they were constructed differently to handle a different type of use than say a Mag Bass blank.

Thanks.

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Alex, my hand is no more than 7" above the reel seat. I do not reach up onto the blank, as stated that shortens the lever and will cause a rod to break.

If you have broken blanks, you can pretty much tell what a rod can and cannot do. YOu're asking a general question and the answer will probably differ depending on teh blanks which are used. As Rich stated, a lot of blanks are the same wiht different names - Loomis, Lami, GUSA are 3 companies which had crossover blanks that I know of, I'm sure the other MAnu's do as well.

Getting Mr. Bass into the boat is done by a savy fisherman by using the "speed and direction" of the fish to "fly" the fishy into the boat with very little stress on the blank. If you are attempting to put Mr. Fish on the deck by short line -dead lift your next step may be to utilize the Warranty Return Option offerred by the manufacturer of the rod. There are very few blanks that you can "bend back on themselves" without compression failure of the hollow graphite blank. I think the vertical jigging blanks that Billy V. is referring to may be capable of doing exactly that.

If you are using a swim bait rod for fish culling then only "Hawgs" are normally involved ... at that point it is time to introduce that thing called a "NET" or be one of the stars and bend over and grab the fish in the mouth and jump up and down for the camera man! Sponsors hate camera shots of broken blanks and fisherman with a hopeless look on their face!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2008 08:19PM by Bill Stevens.

Alex;
If you go back a few of years before we started trimming down handle sizes and eliminating foregrips. You will find that many of the 8 ft rods had 12 inch plus handles with 4in. or longer foregrips and were not a problem. So if we go back to that type of setup on some of our swimbait rods it shouldn’t become one now.

Makes sense. Good input. Thanks!

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I have built quite a few back bouncers. If Richard is right about the swim bait blanks being Salmon back bouncer blanks, and I am sure that he is, I know he is very knowledgable in this area, then a longer handle and a longer fore grip will not be a problem. Salmon back bouncing involves bouncing several ounces of lead and the bait off of the bottom so the tips of the back bouncer blanks are normally stronger than most other blanks so they can easily lift the weight and bait without the rod flexing very much. This means that they will be more difficult to damage by high sticking.
Most Salmon back bouncing rods will have 13", 14", or 15" handles.
I also agree with Steve, these blanks are powerful enough that it is difficult to see how one would damage them even with a big Bass on the line even by grabbing them a couple of feet up on the rod and high sticking them.

Queston for Richard Forhan. There seems to be some difference of opinions concerning the preferred blank action of a swim bait rod. Many of the back bounce blanks are rated as fast action. For a long range large swim bait blank would you prefer a medium action or fast action blank. Also, are any of West Coast guys using braid with no fluoro leader in clear water to throw swim baits?

Emory -

I'm pretty confident Rogue's backbouncing and swimbait blanks are the same blanks. I'm not sure about others.

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Bill,
I would prefer a medium action - but I needed something that would handle 1-5oz and 2-8oz lures. If you can find medium action, LOW modulas graphite blanks that will handle those lure weights - go for it. We don't have a perfect answer for a swim bait rod because of the treble hooks - the rods are WAY too strong to fight the fish properly - so we don't - the only solution once you set up on a big bass is to reel and drag them in - no fight. Braid is not a good choice for powerful rods, treble hooks and dragging them in.