I want to build a new 8’3”- 8”9” 5wt. I definitely want something under 9 feet with the primary factor being light weight, not a full-flex or slow rod but also not too fast. This will be a used primarily for dry flies from small to hopper/droppers. Rod will be used both wading and from drift or pontoon boat, and must be able to handle some wind. My current 4wt is under-gunned some times ( 8’6” Sage SLT, the CC data has this at conflicting numbers so I am not sure where this stands, but it is a bit too slow) and I don’t enjoy my current 9’ 5wt (Sage VPS) I am generally a light-line guy, and will fish a 3wt over a 4wt if possible, and a 4wt over a 5wt, etc. So I am really looking for something as light as possible, in medium fast action that can still handle bigger flies and bigger water. If I build on a blank from a big dealer I can just go cast a rod until I feel like I find something that fits the bill, then order the blank. The problem is that if I am looking at a Burkheimer, or Dan Craft blank, I can’t really cast those prior to ordering.

It is tough to ask everyone’s opinion as to what the best 5wt is, since everyone has an opinion of what is the best or what rods they enjoy. I would like to use the CC data to find something that is similar to a rod that I know I like, that is if you can take the data from a 3wt and apply it to a 5wt. For example, I personally think my 7’10” Sage TXL 3wt is the greatest fly rod ever made. I wrapped it with recoil single foots, and it is so light and crisp…I love this rod and enjoy casting it more than any rod I have ever fished. When look at the CC data the only TXL there is a 0wt, which has an ERN of 1.08 and an AA of 62. I am not sure if this is right, but if I assume that all the rods in this line are about the same (not sure if this is appropriate), then the 3wt would have a ERN of just over 4, and an AA still in the low 60s. I think the AA is a bit low though because I have never liked mid-flex rods, such as orivs and even my SLT is too slow. Would it be appropriate to look for a 5wt blank that has an ERN of about 6 and AA of upper 60s and assume that it will feel like my TXL, only in a 5wt model and a bit faster? Or, because I want light in hand feel, should I be looking for a 4wt with an ERN of mid-5 to 6 to keep the weight down but give me enough backbone to do the things I am asking the rod to do.

I certainly don't want to throw away money, but I also don't subscribe to the theory that just because something is a good value, then it is worth passing up a better product at a higher cost. I am done building "value" rods that might be heavier or offer good performance for a good price. I am willing to pay extra for better performance and lightness.

Based on the CC data, here are some rods that I am considering, feel free to recommend something that I don’t have listed.

Dan Craft FT 863-4 ERN=7.03 AA=75 (may be way too fast for me even though it is a 3wt, what if I use a 5wt line? Will the fact that it is a 3wt make it lighter and yet the ERN and AA still allow me to fish it like a 5wt?)
Dan Craft Sig V 8’9” 4wt ERN=6.5 AA=63
St Croix SCIV 865-4 ERN=5.2 AA=69
Burkheimer 8’9” 4/5/6 ERN=5.2 AA=66 (This is one that I am strongly considering!!!)
Rainshadow RX7+ 865-4 (no exact data for the one I am considering)
Rainshadow RX8+ 865-4 (no exact data for the one I am considering)
Sage Z-Axis 8’6” 5wt (no exact data)

But the real question is…am I applying the CC data correctly to try and find a rod that I will enjoy?

Thanks,
Mike

Actually, the rods in a particular line in a manufacturer's series won't all be similar - they can vary widely in action and even relative power for the distances intended. So you want to be careful there. Sounds like that's what you're doing.

Keep in mind that line weight changes as you move or less of it past the tip. 30 feet of 5-weight line doesn't weigh nearly as much as 60 feet of 5-weight line does. The distance range you plan to cast and fish will play a huge role in the rod that works best for you.

You seem to like the action of the rod you mention. Keep that AA of 62 in mind when looking at other rods.

A rod with a very fast action gives you a bit more leeway in terms of lines that work well with it. If the tip is fast and light enough, you can effectively cast off the tip itself, allowing you to use lighter lines than the overall power of the rod would indicate.

I think you've made a good pick with the Burkheimer. Kerry has a very intelligent rating system for his rods and blanks and owning a couple, I can tell you that they aren't extremely fast, but they fall ahead of older, traditional moderate actions. The AA of 66 would indicate this as well.

The 5.2 ERN indicates a rod that should cast a 5-weight line well both in fairly close and out to perhaps 50 or 60 feet. It is isn't likely to be a powerhouse long distance 5-weight rod, but that doesn't sound like what you're after anyway. I do think you'll find it to load easily and cast well at average distances.

I don't find my Burkeheimers to be heavy at all, but I wouldn't call them exceptionally light, either. Kerry has his own take on what's needed to provide adequate durability and won't use the highest modulus graphites. I consider mine to be rods that cast pleasantly and have good reserve power.

When we come to "feel" you really need to consider the Common Cents Frequency rating. Not many folks are recording those, yet, but it ends up being the best way to compare rod speed and therefore "feel."

Finally, if you can find one of the old St. Croix SCIV 865 models, I think you'd love it. The second fastest action fly rod I'm aware of and will cast a 5-weight line at average to long distances with great ease. I'd pay $100 for every one of these I could find today. But that's just me - you might not like such a fast tip. The ERN falls around 5.8 or 5.9, if I recall correctly.

...................

Mike,
I think you need to read the articles again. AA has in my experience not near as much to do with how a rod performs as you seem to think. You should I believe be looking at the ERN/ to Manufactures rating more.
The Sage SPLs and SLTs feel slower because they are lighter powered blanks not because they don't have a fast tip, my 8 ft 9 in SPL 3 wt has every bit as fast a tip as my TCRs. My TCR 8 wt as an ERN of 10.2 feels very crisp with an 8 wt, put a 10 or 11 on it and it's a SLT/SPL all over again.
Same situation with the Orvis' and others you've mentioned, the slow rods are really no slower, put the new tip flex and mid flex 5 wt Zero Gravities through there paces. I think you'll find the mid flex is a much faster in your hand than the tip flex.
Another thing your feeling with the Sage is it's swing weight. Sages historically aren't always the lightest rods you'll find if you put them on a scale, but if you measure the perceived weight with a reel on that is in front of your hand they are some of the best out there. This is maybe where some of the Sages you have and don't like so much may be be helped. I'll bet the Sages, if you look at the guide spacing/ size chart, aren't even close with the expensive Sages having smaller guides out on the tip.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2008 09:27AM by Spencer Phipps.

Spencer,

Are you talking action or speed? A rod with most of the flex in the tip is definitely faster than one with most of the flex towards the mid section. Although, the latter could have a faster speed depending on the material it's made from.

AA is action, while speed is better viewed as frequency.

................

Tom,
I was talking about frequency, in my less than perfect way I was trying to impart that many high AA blanks aren't necessarily percieved as fast blanks when fished for many reasons. People want things simpler than they really are. In the rod weight he mentioned the Scott G2 is probably the lightest weight factory rod I've put my hand on, but you wouldn't know it when fishing it. It fishes like a log (tip heavy/swing weight)compared to many Sages and GLXs and especially the Tom Morgan Rodsmith rods.

Okay, that's true if the terminology is being used in the wrong way. Any blank with a high AA definitely possesses a fast action.

I think this is where many fishermen confuse action with speed. We can thank the advertising people for that.

..................