I fish for chinook salmon in a lake by casting, and the lures they want have gone smaller and smaller. So I am interested in making a casting rod and a spinning rod that will both handle the fish well and cast lures as light as 1/4 ounce with ease and some reasonable distance. This year I used a 7 ' medium power fast tip spinning rod and a 7' casting rod, Loomis 812 spinner bait rod, but was unable to cast as well as I needed to. I think I need longer rods, and softer actions. I don't want a one piece rod longer than 7 ' because they travel so poorly.

But I would like to have your input on what would be the best rods to build for these applications. I have looked at the blanks available and have concluded that the best bet would be to buy two St Croix SC III blanks, the 2 piece 8' 6" salmon rod actions, and build one into a casting rod and one into a spinning rod.

I think they would be light enough to allow one handed casting, long enough and soft enough to propel 1/4 ounce lures a reasonable distance, and still have the ability to handle the fish (chinooks from 12-16 pounds, or even bigger on occasion). The water is open, so you can, if you are patient, let them run if your reel has enough line capacity.

What do you think?

thanks, Mick

No such thing as a soft action, just fast, medium and slow, but I suspect what you mean is a rod with a fast action but a softer tip.

Here's what I'd do and you have 2 options. First, find a Hot Shot blank that meets your power requirements. These are super fast tip rods and will cast light lures but still retain tremendous power for fish fighting. In fact, this may be exactly what you're after.

Option number 2, is to take a blank that has the casting lure range you require, and extend it. That will make it a faster action but preseve and somewhat increase the overall power for fish fighting.

............

Tom's on the money there. I would suggest a Hot Shot, or a Popping Rod. The light tip will propel lighter lures a long way, but mid-section and butt have heaps of power.

Castaway XP3 844 - Popping blank with a moderate fast action. 1/4 - 1/2 lure wt

Details can be found at [www.swamplandtackle.com]

I like your St. Croix choices. Another approach would be to go to an 8' 2pc model.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

I can't help you with choices, but if it were me....I'd just order one rod and see if it fits what you are looking.
no point in having two rods that don't fit the bill

Hot Shot models typically have very, very powerful butts (much more powerful than popping rod blanks) mated to very fast and light tips. These are about the fastest tapers you'll find in rod blanks. Take a hard look at them.

..............

You said you don't want a one piece longer than 7', then speak of 8'6" blanks in two piece so I'll assume that the two piece idea is a go. Anyone's Steelhead blank or even flyrod blanks will work for this type of need, but I won't tell you that one handed long distance stuff is going to be all that comfy. You can go split-T and counterbalance slightly, that'll give you an easier one hand cast...it does for me, anyway.

Any info on what # test you're using may help sort this out. I used long rods and lighter lines (8-10) for Lake Michigan kings for years, it works well and gives great distance for smaller, more zippy fliers like KO's and Kastmasters in 1/4 ounce sizes. Upper weights of flyrods are fine for this, plenty of backbone and great length to add to the angles in a fight. It only takes so much to straighten a smaller hook on these mouths, so too heavy is alot of power for nothing unless your going Siwash singles or whatever.

Long rods are long rods and they are going to be a bit heavier, so it's just something to live with if the benefits outweigh the weight in a fishing situation. Don't forget big water is often windy and the rollers can pull and slack line even on mild days, this has an annoying effect on long distance hooksets even for the little spring coho. Kills ya on kings! Hard to believe, but that extra few feet of rod on the reply really takes up line and gives a good hookset even with moderate action rods. Power ain't jack if you are at the end of the hookset stroke and only begining to hit the fish.

I have built on the older SC3 Steelie blank and can honestly say that the SC3 flyrod version is a better rod for the casting of lures. Very similar, the Steelie blank seems meatier toward the tip and holds a tad heavier in the hand. The SC3 flyrod build is a bit more powerful, weight is distributed better for casting and working lures. Both are 9' blanks, never tried the shorter one's and an 8' or 8'6" might be just the ticket for you, especially if you go high end on super light guides & conservative epoxy out in front of your hand. Last PacBay was a sweetie, might check them out as well for they have a nice price.

FWIW, in my experience your're on the right track here as shorter bass tackle just doesn't cut it on these types of fish unless they are close or up creeks.

Agree with everything in the above post by Joseph
Have faced the same dilemma
Light lures, maximum casting distance required , and some fighting power when you get bit.
Singlehanded casting with longer rods though, results in a diminishing casting power.
8'6" is a big ask single handed to maximise casting distance.
Hotshot blanks are excellent for the job at hand but are 1-piece. & I have several
I found the flyblanks weren't as crisp in the cast as Salmon/steelhead blanks ( but would do the job )
Salmon/steelhead blanks was where I went for 2-piece portability.
- shortish split grip for 2-handed casting significantly increased the casting distance on blanks over 7'6".
I have built on several Salmon/Steelhead blanks & found both the Pacbay & Batson to be excellent - with the Batson RX7 being my favorite as it is a bit lighter in the hand but plenty of power when needed.
For both casting distance & a bit more power I found the 9' blanks performed better.
I would really recommend you think hard about building a 2-handed rod to maximise casting distance.
DenisB

Thanks for all the great advice. I would never have considered hot shot or popping. The advice to start with one is also very sound advice, and I will do that. Will do some more thinking and research, but your responses are very much appreciated.

By the way, a little more detail- the lures that seem to work now are about 1/4 ounce stick baits, so they do not cast anywhere near as easily as a spoon of similar weight. We fish inland, not out on the big lake water, but wind can still be an issue, a big issue. The one handed casting requirement is not really a requirement, but if I could get a good rod that would allow that to some degree, so much the better. I guess it is a different way of saying that light weight is desireable. One piece is not a hard requirement, but I thought I would ask for it - it's nice not to have rods going all the way from the back of the van to the instrument panel, but not out of the question if the action is superior to two piece.

thanks again, Mick

The G Loomis HS 9000-2 will easily handle the fish you mentioned, throw 1/4 oz lures single handed, a good long ways. Very light and pleasant to fish with. The versatlity of this blank will have you using it for many more things than salmon in short order. I'd go with a grip in the 11 inch range, might just a bit shorter on the spinning version, so you have plenty to grip under your forearm, can still single hand cast and can go to a double hand cast when the need arises.

I have not yet considered the HS 9000-2 because its power rating is light. I thought I should have medium. The Loomis catalog calls it "Mag Light," Does Mag light have more power than a normal light? Or a normal medium? But it may be the right choice since the fish, while big and powerful, have mostly only open water to run to. The spinning rod I used this year was a St Croix 7 foot SCV medium power/fast action using Yozuri Ultra Soft Hybrid in 6 # test, and it did very well fighting the fish. The line was clearly a little underpowered, but the rod did great. Where it was not so good was casting the 1/4 ounce stick baits.

Which brings up an observation-it seemed to me that the fast action tended to make the lures tumble, catch the wind, and not go very far. If I could get the cadence/timing of the cast right the lure would go out straight, back first, and not catch the wind. It seemed to me that when I used an old Ugly Stick for a while (man was it heavy and unpleasant), a much slower action, the lures seemed to stay stable in the air more. Which led me to think I needed a slower action.

I have narrowed my selection to the St Croix 3C80MXE and the Loomis HS 1021-2 (maybe cut the butt of the latter off a few inches), and now the HS 9000-2.

I would appreciate further comments on the rods. Thanks again, I'm learning a lot.

Mick

If the Loomis HS 9000-2 would work for what I've described, then I would think I should also consider the Rainshadow HS 9000 & 9001 blanks at about 1/2 the price?

Mick

Yes! Hot Shot, heavy butt, light tip. It's your ticket to success! The rainshadows are good. Don't be afraid to give them a try.

Next question, would these blanks all work with a spiral wrap bait casting setup OK? I see no reason why they would not. Thanks for the comments on the Rainshadows. I've never made one before, maybe now is the time.

Mick

GLoomis HS-9000-2 Mahogany (GL3) is a wonderful blank for both spin and baitcast. I have both, as I like to build rods in pairs, and up till today, they remain my favorite rods. The tip is wonderfully light, extremely fast and sensitive. I use them to cast live prawns without weight for barramindis and I have caught and fought some up to 8 kilogram in weight. Try them and you will not regret.

Anthony Lee

Don't let the power rating fool you, the HS9000-2 has all the butt power you need in a low current situation for chinook pretty close to 30 lbs. The other blanks I've tried in similar power ratings from other manufactures don't have the same tip, they are much faster getting into the power in the tip and I don't think they throw lures near as well. I own HS 9000s in all the G Loomis graphite materials and they are worth every penny I paid.
The Worried Shrimp built one that he uses fly fishing, spin fishing, and baitcasting, all from the same rod.
He calls it his Hades Rod in his article.

An issue with the very fast taper blanks like the Hotshot rods is the "lure tumble" you mention in an earlier post.
finding the right amount of drop from the tip before the cast is valuable in establishing stable lure flight from the cast as well as cadence of the 'swing'.
You are correct in your assessment of slower vs faster taper affecting lure stability & flight. Its more from the fact that the final accelleration of the rod tip at the release is from the reflex of the rod and this is fast & short with a fast taper blank compared to being more progressive and slightly longer timewise in a med/fast blank. It simply makes the timing of your cast release more critical in a very fast taper blank and a little more forgiving in a slower taper blank.
DenisB

Dennis B. please review the following thread: With your permission I pasted a response using your text: If you do not think it is applicable and wish to have it removed please let me know.

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