I'm new to the rod building game but one of the things I would like to try is weaving a design for the butt wrap. One of the terms I hear used often is "left list". What is this and how is it used in weaving. I apologize if this is a basic question but like i said I'm still learning.
Thanks for your responses in advance.

Mark ....... don't apologise for a question ....... everybody has to start and everyone is here to help everyone ............ that's the way it should be.

Now to your question. When you weave you usually anchor your weaving threads on the right (away from the foregrip on the rod) and you move the threads you want exposed i your design for that specific wrap of the base thread to the left while you wrap. THe left list is a list of number of each individual thread that you have moved to the left for each wrap of the base thread. THerefore it is known as the left list. It's really very simple ....... just don't know how to better explain it ........

The "left list" is a list of instructions so to speak - it identifies the threads that are to be moved aside (to the right and out of the way of the background thread that is being wrapped around the rod).

If you had a pattern with, say, 100 threads, and you saw that step 9 for instance, said "15 - 28" that would mean that for the 9th revolution of the background thread, you would lift and move threads number 15 through 28 to the right so the background thread won't cover them. When you move them back, they appear in your image.

Once each step has been completed, and the threads designated moved and then returned to their starting location, you will have your image.

.................

I think you have weaving mixed up with cross wrapping. A cross wrap is typically referred to as a "butt wrap". Weaving is a completely different animal.

Weave

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Crosswrap

[www.rodbuilding.org]

I guess I do it backwards. I load my right hand jig. then start the over wrap and when my pattern starts I take the threads out of the Right jig and move them to the left jig. The Left list telly me what threads to move from the right jig to the left jig thus moving the threads over the wrap thread and later when moved back to the right jig it will end up on top of the wrap thread similar to how Tom discussed. I have a tutorial on the use of simple weaving jigs that might help clear up some questions if you wish to email me or it might be posted somewhere on this site. Remember though many weavers dont use the left lists but use the grid pattern instead. Mostly a personal preference thing.

Hi Mark

We are holding a compitition at the moment for weaving and there is a section for novices, this is a good way of starting as well as have a little fun.

if you take a look around this site you will find heaps of info on weaving that will help you get started. To get your self set up it does not cost an arm and leg as a lot of the tools required you can use things that you find around the house.

The other thing is no question is stupid as we all started somewhere and it was through sites like this and people like these here that helped me get started.

Now on your question I believe you are talking about weaving but you just added a term in there that related to wrapping.

Weaving is just that you weave a picture of some description by moving threads back and forward.

Butt wrap is when you wrap a design onto the butt.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Mark good luck and if you do need any help I am more then will to give a hand and I see the master has also offered you a hand as well.

Mark,
The best way I can describe a left list is as a set of instructions that tell you which threads should not be wrapped over at any particular stage of the weave.

You have to consider the weave as a grid.
Kind of like how you seen individual pixels if you stand really close to your TV.
Most people take the image they want to weave and place it on grid.
Then they write down which threads to move out of the way of the thread being wrapped around the rod on each rotation.
Typically the jig on the right holds all the threads that are being rapped over and the one on the left holds the threads that are being moved out of the way so that eventually they will lay on top and become the pattern. Hence it is a "Left" list.
So each line on the left list tells you which threads should be in the left jig and consequently which should be in the right jig during that rotation of the rod.
Some people having placed the pattern on the grids say..."We don't need no steeenking left list"
We can work straight from the grid and cut out a step. And they're right.
In the old days when all left lists were created by hand from a hand drawn grid, it was a significant saving.
With the advent of software to create the list, it's no longer a laborious process to create a left list if you decide to change the design at any time.
I hope you have lots of fun and look forward to seeing your work.

Volumn 5 Issue 4 of RodMaker Magazine has an explanation and explains the process.

Mark,
Your email address is hidden on the forum. Email me and I'd be
happy to reply with files prepared by me & others.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I can't use a left list generated by somebody else. I use a bastardization of the grid method that Doc mentioned. I find left lists to be terribly confusing but that's just how my brain works. No real right or wrong way, same as most everthing we all do in this craft. Find out what works for you and go with it.

Mongrel language this english of ours
Doc & Mick are making a very important point.
Left list as defined by @#$%& (PTW ) has the threads which are going to be showing as the weave when you finish the pattern.
Right list as defined By PTW has the threads that are to be wrapped over .& will not be seen in the weave pattern.
This however ASSUMES you are going to be wrapping from left to right.

If you are wrapping from right to left. loading & using the weave steps unaltered you will end up with a horrible mess that looks nothing like the intended pattern.......................it will in fact be inside out.& you will have a mass of fancy coloured thread ends sticking out of the wraps & a terrific weave pattern under your wraps where it cannot be seen.

So IF you are wrapping from right to left
You need to call your PTW left list YOUR right list & load it on the right & call your PTW right list YOUR left list and load it on the left., you then need to transpose every action @#$%& PTW tells you to do with the threads in the pattern to the opposite hand.

I'm not picking on PTW it was a convention that was adopted in weaving a long while back that meant something based on weaving a jig or wrapping a rod from left to right

as I said at the start "mongrel language this English of ours.

I humbly suggest that in recognition that not everyone works the same way & a spirit of not discriminating against those who wrap from right to left & confusing everybody with the words LEFT & RIGHT
it might have been a lot better & less confusing to have used completely different words for the weave thread loadings
ie cover & uncover.................surely somebody could have come up with something better.
ANYTHING but left & right.
But we are sort of stuck with it now.

Owen...................as this Left /Right convention is longstanding it should not be difficult to program PTW with an icon for left starting wrappers & right starting wrappers that automatically swaps the nomenclature in the program between left & right etc. everywhere in the program.
???????????????
( to be sure this stepwise word substitution does not get lost you may need to program a hidden intermediate step in the transformation.
ie
original left becomes AAA original right becomes BBB then AAA becomes right & BBB becomes left everywhere in the PTW lists.)

DenisB

Denis,
Whilst I don't hold the traditional "Left List:" to be sacrosanct, I do have to balance time required programming against how nay people are likely to require a feature.
What you suggest is indeed not "difficult"
It would however require many hours of programming and testing for a likely nett result of very little.

At present you can flip an existing grid both vertically and/or horizontally and generate a new list in seconds.
SO to weave right to left you need to flip horizontally and read the list from highest number down to lowest.

This far I have had only one request to offer the feature you ask for and one request to reverse the pattern for those that need to rotate the rod "toward" them rather than away from them as is the convention.
I won't rule it out but I'd need to see a lot more interest before I put down my rod and pick up my keyboard ;-)

cheers,
Owen.

I think that I will follow Doc's lead and try to do as well as he does.

Owen
I sure understand the issue of programing time.

The main purpose of the post was to explain the convention of left to right wrapping & what people who wrap right to left need to do to adjust to use the weave patterns .................for the newbies.................current practitioners have worked that out long ago.
DenisB