Greetings,

I am getting ready to build a light stand up tuna rod (#50-60) on a GFL760L Calstar blank. Given that it will not be handling really huge loads, I was thinking of using a "roller top", but conventional casting/boat guides on the rest of the rod.

What do you guys think about this approach?

Would adding one additional roller guide - a "roller stripper" guide make any sence?

Thanks on wise ones,

John Esler

I've seen this done on plenty of rods. The goal when you see it on commercially made rods is to reduce expense - roller guides are typically more expensive than the standard hard chrome guides that are placed inbetween the butt guide and top. So the maker is saving money but keeping rollers in the two positions that see the most wear.

You can certainly do this. I'm not sure there will be any advantages other than saving you the cost of building an all roller rod. But even then, a rod like that would perform nicely with all ceramics (good ones). Otherwise, if you want rollers and can afford it, put all rollers on it.

...........

Roller guides require a couple thousand times more maintenance than stationary guides. Not complex or time-consuming maintenance, but absolutely necessary maintenance, nonetheless. This fact might help determine your choice of guides.

Good post on this topic right here: [www.senortuna.com]

Thanks all. I guess it is an option. Still trying to decide what I prefer. I'll check out the positngs from SeniorTuna. Thanks for your thoughts.

John Esler

Just read the posting(s) on SenorTuna. I definately will go all rollers. Thanks for the reference, Billy. Confirmed what the other postings on this site were saying.

Reagards,

JOhn Esler

AA roller set is like $65 from @#$%& on the left. I think Fuji SiC's are the same price if not more expensive! I've used 3 sets of AA rollers, no problems!

John,
I've built two stand up rods for Halibut in your size range using All America Roller Guides in a spiral configuration. It was a bit of over kill for Halibut as they don't make many high speed runs but they are great guides and work well.
Stan

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Thanks Stan, I"ve never used All America Roller Guides before. I used Aftco on the roller rod last year. I'll check out the All America line. I kind of agree, probably wouldn't need them for halibut. This rod will be used mostly for schooling YFT and maybe some big yellow tails on my 10 Day trip out of SD this November.

By the way, I had lunch with Litch last week. He's doing well. And two weeks ago I was in Alaska with Chris Goodman from Craig. We talked about you a bit, your ears were probably ringing. Small world.

Hope youir doing well. See you on the Mo.

Tight lines,
JE

I'm from San Diego and will be going on my 6th long range trip this year next week, an 8 day on the Intrepid.

My 50# rod is a Calstar 765L acid wrapped with Fugi LRSG guides which cost about the same as roller guides. I MUCH prefer the extra 6 inches in length over your choice of a 760 and STRONGLY prefer the Fugi SIC guides over roller guides for the same reason which follows.

You'll be using that rod most likely and hopefully, on YT and tuna and casting sardines or mackies. Usually the more successful guys, among other things, are those that can cast their bait the farthest away from the boat. The longer rod and ring guides will be the difference and allow greater bait casting distance than a short all roller rod. The longer rod is also better for fishing the rail if that is your preference as it keeps the circling tuna farther away from the hull. Most long ranger fisherman now days don't go to roller guides till they get to 100# line and up and even then I know guys that use all ring guides. With spectra, the need for rollers is no more unless you own stock in a roller guide company.

Remember, all these east coast guys don't fish on long range boats that have live bait like we do. It's a HUGE difference in fishing style and calls for different gear.
BTW, my 60# rod is a 765M/L and my 80# rod is a 765M, both wrapped the same as my 765L. I've caught many, many tuna and yt over the years with these rods. I now use the HBSG Fugi guides which are stainless verses brass which the LRSG guides are, both being SIC turbo style guides. On the M/L and M rods I used a #25 for the stripper guides.

Jim,
If I remember correctly that Calstar is 6 1/2" long. How big are the Tuna that you are getting, any 200- 250 lbs? Could you handle a rod that was a foot longer with those fish? The reason that I ask is that I am building four rods for a guy that is coming down your way in a few months for a long range Tuna trip and we have had several conversations on rod length and guide types. I would really appreciate your expert advice. This guy is strong as an ox.

John,
I just had a client bring over a dozen rods and asked that I replace all of the conventional tips with roller tip tops.
His feeling was that there is a significant amount of line wear and drag from the tip top that goes away with the roller tip.

After changing his first tip and doing much testing and fishing, he found that he literally doubled his line life by the use of the roller tip.
Also, he uses braid about 100% of the time for all of his different types fishing. He found that the roller tip also nearly eliminated line noise that commonly happens with some brands of braided line.

He is well satisfied with the change, and for his long rod, heavy action rods, downrigger, and planer board rods, will continue to use roller tips for his fishing.

Take care
Roger

Hi Emory,
My biggest tuna to date is 129# and the 61/2 rod worked just fine. A good buddy of mine who was named one of the top ten all time long range fishermen(he has two 300 pounders and dozens of 200 pounders to his credit) is 73 yrs old and ALL his long range rods are 6 1/2 feet and most have Aftco roller guides, he fishes in a harness 99% of the time and is a large guy. He likes the longer rod for boat clearance when the tuna is in its death circle. If I was fishing for cows on the 18 day trips I'd probably use Calstar 760 H or XH and or 765 H rods probably with roller guides although rods strickly for fishing sardines I'd use the Fugi turbos for ease of casting. Hard to cast a sardine with a heavy reel, short rod, and roller guides.
Again, this type of fishing is not the same as using planer boards and downriggers which we don't use out here at all. I rarely ever see rods with just a roller stripper or tip, the cheapee factory rods used to do that years ago and may still.

Whoa
Horses for courses thats for sure

Any casting involved forget the rollers.............even just the tip concept.
My 2C- been there done that - you can be lucky ,but line damage in casting mishaps is almost inevitable. Even just a short flip cast to get a live bait in the water.

trolling , live baiting ( hand thrown baits ) - full rollers, SIC guides & roller tip, full SIC - all work .

With "light" Stand-up set-up on a fast taper blank the tip loading is a lot less than a conventional Game Blank & any wear advantages of a roller are rather negligible............ but we are talking SIC here not lesser quality types of ceramic.

If the customer is keen on std guides rather than rollers Go with the full SIC set-up....... he will have a flexible duty rod & friction & line wear issues will be negligible, maintenance issues will be minimal too.

If we were talking 30 - +35# drag the argument might swing towards full rollers - but only if there was NO casting EVER involved.
Just my 2C
DenisB

Jim,
Thanks for the info. I know that you guys down there like the Calstar and Seeker blanks, have you ever used any of the Rainshadow blanks when chasing Tuna? This guy is coming down there with 4 rods that I am sure are a lot uglier than the ones you use.

More good things to think about......

I was hoping to cast or at least "toss" live bait with this rod, and I had never considered the extra challenge of rollers and slack like, compared to traditional guides. GOod point.

Also good observation that a light stand up rod gets a solid bend, and when I fight a good fish, the top guide (be it roller or traditional) is almost always pointing directly at the fish - there doesn't seem to be alot of pressure on the top. I agree that with a stiffer rod, especially in a trolling situation would put a lot of potential friction on the top guide.

Using SIC guides because of running full spectra on my reel makes sence, thanks for that reminder.

Appreciate the help,

John Esler

Emory,
I've never seen a Rainshadow rod or blank and don't personally know anyone that owns one. Southern Cal is Calstar and Seeker land.
99% of the guys I know use Calstar, Seeker has been trying to make inroads into Calstar's dominence but it's been slow going imo.
I've seen many more Seekers break than Calstars over the years. They both will work just fine but I'd stay with those two when going after big tuna.

Jim,
Thanks for the benefit of your experience. I really appreciate it. If you are going that many times a year your really are an old hand. Don't you do anything else but go Tuna fishing?
I have had awfully good luck the last few years with both Rainshadow and Lamiglas blanks. I have built literally hundreds of Salmon and Steelhead rods from these blanks. Almost all have been graphite. These Tuna rods that I am building will be my first for big Tuna. I am building them from Rainshadow glass blanks. We will see how they hold up with your big Tuna. All we have here is Albacore but at times we do have a heck of a lot of them. I have never done this well but I have friends that have gone out and caught 50 or even close to 100 in a day. We also do not have the beautiful floating hotels that you have there that can go1000 miles to get to the fish. Here it is mostly day trips much of it in 20" to 22" Dories to usually 10 to 20 miles off shore but sometimes to about 30 or even 40 miles but then hope like @#$%& that you do not run into any bad weather and if you do get some bad weather you hope that you have enough fuel to get you back to the beach.
I will let you know how this guy does with the Rainshadow rods.

Emory,
I go on at least a 5 day tuna trip every other week all summer, then I retire to my recliner where I try to watch as many college and pro football games as humanly possible.
Tuff being retired................