I have read and understand about the use of color preserver possibly making guide wraps weaker due to the CP sealing the wrap and not letting the finish soak thorough the thread. I'm pretty new to this, and the only rods I've done thus far have been done without CP. I'm working on a rod right now, and I really like the colors as they are, but I know that when I apply my finish it will darken and go translucent. I usually like that effect, but I really dig these colors and want to keep them. The question I have, is if I use CP, just how likly is it thatI'll have a guide wrap fail? The rod I'm working on is a bass rod, and will mostly be used for big jigs, up to an ounce, and will be subjected to some abuse as far as bass rods go. Am I tempting fate by using CP on the guide wraps, or am I making too big a deal of the amount of weakening of the bond between finish and blank?

Any advice or knowledge much appreciated.

Absolutely NONE! That's one of those bits ofisinformation that just won't die. I would gusess that a lot more builders use CP than don't! I know people that build Hheavy duty Tuna rods and use CP. Their MAY be a tiny difference in strength but not enough to make any difference. I regulary put CP on 95% of my rods, many of them musky or Lake Erie trolling rods and have NEVER had a guide fail other than by abuse or accident.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Yep, a mountain out of a mole hill. Thread holds the guide to the blank, finish protects the thread. CP won't make a noticible difference.

I use CP on every rod I build. I have never had the wraps fail me yet.

Grant Darby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, a mountain out of a mole hill. Thread holds
> the guide to the blank, finish protects the
> thread. CP won't make a noticible difference.

DITTO!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Outstanding! Thanks a lot for the help. I have some U-40 Color Lock. I'll throw a couple coats on tomorrow when I get the last couple wraps done after I go fishing.

We use two coats of CP over every wrap we do.

Period.

BTW, the best CP we've found is TM ChromaSeal.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

The test results from an older RodMaker issue show a difference in wrap strength of approximately 10% between wraps with and without CP. In either case, both wraps were strong enough that the guides underneath them were completely destroyed before the thread on either let go. This was with a test group of 50 guides per sample and results averaged.

Wraps with CP are more than strong enough to do anything any fishing rod would ever be asked to do.

The old wive's tale and/or myth about CP making a wrap inherently weak is just another one of those things like rod spine - somebody makes an observation or says something (without any tests or data) and it gets repeated often enough over a long enough period of time and it suddenly becomes a "fact."

................

This thread MIGHT lead some new rodbuilders in a direction that it was not intended. I would like to point out that the ONLY valid reason to use any of the color preserves is to improve the color retention of the thread for purely aesthetic purposes. Many more rods are built by rodbuilders, which includes production as well as custom, which DO NOT use color preserver. The use of color preserver is NOT not a required step in the building of a fishing rod.

Specific Problem: If a guide wrap is not properly end sealed or finish haze cracks occur at guide leg penetration points, with extended use or deep cycling flex, any water soluble layer between the blank and thread can be severely effected and has contributed to premature failure.

Bill,
I beg to differ somewhat, I do more repairs (on both custom and production rods) than builds and I regularly see and repair rods with all of the problems that you mention and EVERY one has been on production rods that have had NO CP used on them. If the ends are not sealed, you may have a problem regardless of whether or not CP was used. Incidentally, contrary to popular belief, I find it no more difficult to remove/unwind the thread from a guide with no CP than I do with CP. I have about a dozen repairs going right now and once the thread was started, all I had to do was pull the end to have it easily unwind.
I have no data to support this but, IMO, whether or not to use CP is a matter of aesthetics. If you want to preserve the color of the wraps, use it. If you want the dark translucent look, don't Either way is correct!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2008 11:24AM by Mike Barkley.

Mike I do not believe that we have a difference of opinion on the actual use of color preservers for guide wraps. The only thing that concerns me is your statement "I would gusess that a lot more builders use CP than don't!" New guys may read that statement, take it out of context and think that the use of color preservers is a requirement for all rods

I see what you mean, Bill!! That is just a guess on my part. You may be right but I think that a lot more use CP than you think. I agree with you 100% (does that get me some Lan Yap and hot sauce???) that it 's strictly cosmetic!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Lagnaippe On the way! The first ones going out will be one to you and one to Michael "All In" Joyce!

If you really want to make the "Big Hit" order a $1,000 worth of stuff from Swampland and I will send you a free Universal Symbol Licence plate!

SL2

Talk about strange things happening. I fished yesterday with a very old fiberglass salmon rod that I built about 12 years ago. My fishing buddy asked me why the last guide wrap was a lighter color than the others. Much to my surprise, that last guide had no finish on it!!! All those years and I never noticed the difference, but the guide was still secure, the thread was a bit frayed. I may just keep using it as a test. I figure I have about 30 years to go!!!!

I have only built eight rods but the only one I have had fail is the ONE, which I fish with the most, that I did not use it on. My boat was stolen by some kids off the edge of a creek at night outside my tent. they just went joy riding and then let it go down the river. It was a week before I could get back up there to get it and rain filled the boat up and my favorite fly rod lay there and soaked, water soaked in under the thread wraps and weakened the thread, when I picked it up the eyelets pretty much fell out. The other rod I had in there I did use it on and it still looked brand new.

On the same note I was fishing with the rod before the finish had cured well. I put the finish on Friday morning and the boat was taken Saturday night. And it was only one coat of finish on both rods. I have a tendency to want to fish with one before I am completely done with it at times, usually that poses no problem but this time maybe it did.
Not sure if it was the lack of CP but I tend to believe that if the thread had been sealed with it, I would not have had to rebuild the rod.