I'm replacing a guide for a guy I work with. Just to make a long story short, he had a another guy that we know build a rod for him. He is VERY proud of this rod as well as the amount that paid for it. I know this because he must have told me about 30 times in a 5 minute conversation that he paid $500 for it. This is where the problems start. He thinks that he has titanium Sic guides but they are Hardloy's and he also wants me to rewrap them in the "Titanium core thread that Fugi developed specifically for use with titainium Sic guides even though he knows it's $2/inch." Like I said I know the guy that built the rod for him and he is one of those that brags about being able to "sell ice to an eskimo". I called him and let him know what was going on and he just dying laughing and told me that I can make a fortune off this guy. Needless to say I didn't laugh and now I'm left with the choice of whether to tell the guy he got screwed or not. This kind of stuff just kills me. Why screw someone just because you can? Any advice while I get up the nerve to make this call?

David Page
E-town, KY.

It's builders like this guy that give the rest of us a bad name!!! As Tom and others have posted below, honesty is the best policy. If you're not honest with him, then YOU lose all credibility. Don't badmouth the other builder, but also don't worry about him. He's already made his bed, let him lie in it!!

Bill in WV



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2008 11:13PM by William Bartlett.

There is nothing wrong with being honest with your customer. Tell him what he has and what you can do for him. Do not say anything negative about the original builder. That is between him and that builder. I wouldn't get involved in discussing what he paid or was told, just state what he has there and what you can offer to do for him.

You have an opportunity to obtain a lifelong customer if you handle this correctly and can also stave off the notion that all custom builders are dishonest or disreputable. Just make sure that his experience with you is a pleasant and good one.

...............

If it were me, I'd change his guides to Fuji Tit SIC's and work in that new guides charge with my new wrappings and never say a word! = happy customer with what he really wants = comes back to see you again.

Edit.....I didn't know the thread doesn't exzist.....

DR



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2008 02:31PM by Duane Richards (DR).

I think that you have to tell him the truth. He stated that he wants "me to rewrap them in the "Titanium core thread that Fugi developed specifically for use with titainium Sic guides even though he knows it's $2/inch." Since he wants something that doesn't exist, there's no way to not tell him. If you replace the guide with a titanium SIC, he will see that it's different. If you say nothing and replace it with a Hardaloy, he will eventually find out and think that you screwed him also! Lies have a way of catching up and you don't want to get caught up in that. Like Tom said, be honest and simpley tell him what he has

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I agree with Mike and Tom. If possible show hom the difference between the guides and blanks. As for the thread good luck.
Good Wraps Bob

complete honesty is the way to go

i agree not to say anything negative regarding the original builder, but I would tell him that those aren't titanium SiC guides and there is no such thing as Ti core thread and let him choose what he wants from there.

TEll him the truth, then tell him you'll wrap a TI SIC rod for $650. Not only will you get a customer out of trust, you'll make a bit of money. If the guy likes to brag how much he spends on a rod, he'll tell his friends what happened and to keep up with teh Jones's, you'll get more orders for high dollar rods.

Yep ... straight skinny. DEFINITELY no comments one way or the other about the other builder. Once you give him the correct technical information, he will understand.

I cannot even comprehend how some people can think to do something like this, let alone actually follow through.

Obviously, you have to tell him one way or another that what he got was not what he wanted. Definitely show him the difference between the two. At this point you may also want to show him several other styles/types of guides so he knows what he is looking at to prevent anything like this in the future. It may be wise to have a price list on the 2 different guides as well to show him how much cost difference there truly is.

IF and ONLY IF the original guides are in pretty good and usable condition, offer to strip them and rewrap with the correct guides that he initially wanted, but credit 50% of the retail cost of the original guides to him. Full price on the new guides, but it shows good faith which can go a long way in todays world. With the price of hardloys its not going to hurt you anyway. To him it will show that you are not just trying to make a couple bucks for the rewrap and new guides, but rather truly care that he gets what he wanted and was told in the first place.

I agree with the others to make no mention of the other builder throughout any of this conversation. If he asks what your opinion of the other builder is after going through this, I believe its a good idea to identify that that discussion is between him and the other builder and you do not feel that it is your place to get into the middle of it.

David, I think you're being played or even tested for honesty. If he's that happy with the rod and price, why have YOU rewrap? Why not the original guy or the person who told him about the supposed $2.00/inch thread?

Perhaps I'm just suspicious of folks and their motives when things sound a bit ludicrous, but I'd say you're the "eskimo" in this case and the "ice" is the incredible opportunity that not even an honest man like you can resist. Sounds like these guys were drinkin' some beers and came up with a little wager.

If so, you and at least one other person won.

David I don't know about being tested but my first question would be IF you love the rod that much why didn't you bring it back to the builder, aside from that i agree with what has been said above re honesty
John

I agree with Tom above - tell him what he has (without attacking the other builder) and what you can do for him. If he opts to replace the guide with another hardloy, I would do it and charge him a fair price. If he wants to upgrade to TiSic, and I would give him sound counsel about whether or not that is even worth doing given the type and use of rod it is, then I would do that and charge him a fair price for doing it. In the end you will have acted with integrity and, if you're friend is able to recognize it, you'll have a customer for life.

Well I finally got to talk to Danny this morning while I was at work and he came by when I got home. I didn't say anything about the guy that built the rod even though he tried very hard to get tme to say he lied to him about it all. Needless to say he figured it out and was absolutely livid over it. Danny is a police officer here in town and he seems to think that he can get the guy on theft by deception over $200 which is a felony here. About 20 minutes ago I get a call from the guy that built the rod and he's going to kill me in about 30 different ways after he sues me for slander. I asked Danny why he didn't take it back to Bryan over the guide and he's out of town for the week and he needed the rod done for a tournament this weekend. So I'm being threatened from 500 miles away lol. I didn't know rod building and repair was going to involve courts, lawyers, death threats and law suits lol. Obviously this has not been a pleasant week to be me.

David Page
E-town, KY.

That is not an ideal situation to be in at all! My first choice would have
been to inform and educate the customer as well. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, after reading this I think if someone brings me a fairly new
custom rod for repair I will first refer the customer back to the original
builder. If that is not possible, I may NOT take the job, but, if I do I'll just do
the repair as requested and offer no other comments or education at all.

Caught between a rock & a hard place over a fishing rod is no place to be!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

David where you able to show him the differences in the guides. @#$%& what about that new thread the builder says he has. I hope your friend has a recite that states what components went in to the rod. If he doesn't it is his word against your friends
Good Wraps Bob

Tell him to go to NAPA and buy parts for a car-What would it cost to build a car from parts bought at retail at NAPA? I do repairs for a local shop and I repair rods that were bought for almost nothing and I charge guide repair at my part's cost plus $12.00 for a single foot wrap and $15.00 for a double foot wrap-a lot of times that is more than they paid for the rod-I say-what is the rod worth to you with a guide missing-$0-if you ever want to fish it again-pay the price! What are their options? They can "KMA" or buy a new Wal-Mart bucket rod and go on with it. I ain't no South Vietnamese sweat -shop wrapper! You get what you pay for!

David,

The guy is making idle threats, but you want to record those calls if you can. Believe me, I've gotten the same thing recently and generally they're just blowing smoke out of ignorance. But record and document them if you can.

As I said earlier, say nothing bad about the original builder - just offer to help the customer if you can. Tell him what you know about the rod and the components on it. The original builder is not going to sue you for slander. He is not going to do anything let alone consult a competent attorney - believe me, I know how such people operate. He is making idle threats and has no idea what the law is regarding these matters.

Treat this customer as you would want to be treated and everything else will fall in place.

.................

David,
I think that you could have avoided all of the trouble, if you had simply asked the customer if you wanted you to MATCH the guides and thread that were on the rod?
No need to discuss what the guides are on the rod, or what brand or anything else.
If he says yes - quote him a price to match that particular guide and take care of the job.

In addition, if the customer asks about different guides, you could give him a tour of the various guides and their prices on the market.
Don't get into any type discussion about who built the rod, what they claimed the guides, thread or blank to be. Simply ask if he wants the guide to match and quote a price to the potential customer for the job.

Take care
Roger

David Page Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't say anything about the guy that
> built the rod even though he tried very hard to
> get tme to say he lied to him about it all.
>

That part after the "told me about 30 times in 5 minutes that he paid $500..." ought to raise a red flag here. Fact that Danny is a police officer and dumping half a grand into a rod makes me think he might have the common sense to check IF he didn't know the difference when he had the rod in his hand. Can't tell if it was Danny or Bryan that is the TX fisherman who needed the rod done, reads like both are TX'ers. If Officer Danny is the one that needed the rod for a weekend TX, even more likely that he would've known the difference. No?

I'm really surprised that this wasn't a joke being played on you, David. Sorry to belabor the social aspects of this dilemma, but it smells funny to me the way you describe it. Many folks can tell you how to get a customer for life with Danny...I'm going to suggest that you may not want to do anything like that. Sounds like the kind of fella that you may have some trouble with even as an honest business person.