Might I suggest a 2 week moratorium on discussing the secret surprise that is in the latest issue of Rodmaker? Christmas day is going to come on different days for each of us. It would be a shame to ruin the surprise for everyone by someone that gets their magazine first. Just an idea.

Kevin

When I was a kid I used to "peek" before X-Mas!
May the first one to see the new issue BLAB & BLAB!

LOL

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Ray we all knew you were sneekeeLOL
Good Wraps Bob

I know what it is! I know what it is!

Mine came about fifteen minutes ago in the morning's mail! But I won't spill the beans on it.

I will say that on one hand I was greatly disappointed because I had strongly hoped that it would be the start of a new organization for rod builders. So I'm not telling you what it is but am telling you what it isn't and I am disappointed.

On the other hand I can see where the gift does sort of bond all together in a fraternity or brotherhood of rod builders and so while I was disappointed on one hand I was excited on the other hand. Mine is already put to good use and I hope everyone will do the same when theirs arrives. It is a great idea and another one of the reasons why the magazine, this site and the big expo are on top. To keep doing stuff like this for everybody when you don't have to is the reason they are all so successful and popular.

But I would still be interested in a professional rod building organization.

Ken,

I hear this quite often - how the rod building craft needs an organization. Why? No one seems able to tell me just what an organization can or would provide that isn’t already being offered in spades.

A magazine? Arguably, RodMaker is a better magazine by nearly anyone’s standards than anything any rod building club or organization has ever produced. It would be highly unlikely that any rod building organization could ever attract enough members to be able to produce something along the lines of RodMaker. So scratch that one.

A website or forum? There must be 40 rod building forums online currently. Granted, most of them don’t see much use, but this one right here certainly does. And, when you add in the wide variety of features and associated pages here, you’d be hard pressed to show me any organization or club website that offers anything close to what this one does. Most importantly, this one doesn’t cost you anything to use. You, or anyone else, can access anything here for free without having to join anything or pay a fee. How is any organization going to beat that?

A yearly event? The International Custom Rod Building Exposition is easily 10 to 20 times larger than any club or organization’s event has ever been. No club or organization has ever drawn more than 200 rod builders to an event (historically, most got less than 50). The Expo drew over 1600 custom rod builders last year and featured more of the rod building industry than any club or organization ever has. In fact, you could take every single club or organization event held over the past 30 years and combine them and what you’d end up with would still pale in comparison to the Expo. So you don’t need an organization to provide you with something like this - it already exists and you don’t have to join or be a member of anything to attend.

Education? I do not think you can find anything more educational than RodMaker or the seminars and demonstrations given at the Expo. As far as classes and information, the RodMaker Public Library Program and the various impromptu classes given by random rod builders across the U.S. have reached far more people, including kids, than any club or organization ever has. And with the advent of the internet, almost anyone can gain access to whatever information they need in a pinch. Mud Hole’s new program and the punch behind it will likely expose more new people to custom rod building next year than all the classes and programs given in the past 20 years have. So again, all of this is already taking place and more of it takes place outside any organization than within.

Camaraderie? If you have to join a club to make rod building friends you need to brush up on your social skills. You can make lifelong rod building friends without having to join anything or pay anyone a fee. Most do.

Help? Have you truly been unable to get the rod building help you need? I think you’ve gotten quite a bit right here. If you come to the Expo, all you need do is just ask and folks will fall all over themselves to share, teach, explain, etc. They jump at the opportunity to help. You’ve got a directory listed above with rod builders in your local area that I guarantee you will be happy to have you by for a visit and will interact with you on any rod building topic you desire. So again, how is an organization going to do anything that isn't being done already regards getting you rod building help?

I’m not attempting to bash the idea of clubs or associations, just pointing out that a large national or international rod building organization is not only unlikely, but at this particular point in time really serves no purpose. If it did or even could, then you’d already have one, and a large one at that. (I think the small, informal, regional clubs are great - that isn’t what I’m talking about here.)

My feeling is that everything that anyone could want in a national club or organization is already being provided in spades and in a way that dispenses with the need to join anything or pay dues or fees. I really don’t think rod builders have ever had it this good.

Exactly what is it that you’re wanting that you feel isn’t being provided to you already and that a club or large organization could provide? I’m really interested in what it is that you feel you’re unable to obtain outside of a such a thing. Again, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I just can't figure out what it is that you feel an organization could offer that isn't already available to you.

............

I agree on every point and think this is why no general rod building organization can ever make a go of it. Just too much else out there that is already getting the job done and for less or no money. No argument from me there!

What I have looked for is a PROFESSIONAL organization or association that caters to the needs of those selling rods to the public. A publication devoted to advertising advice, tax and business articles. That kind of thing. The collective advertising that was going to be done by RBI really interested me and would be advantageous for most professional rod builders, but I see that they were "one and done" in that area. It just seems like those of us who sell rods might be aided by some sort of professional association that centered around actual business advice and topics. We don't need to learn how to build rods. We already either know how to do that or can learn from the things you mentioned.

Maybe there aren't enough guys interested at that level to make it work. I don't know. Wish I did.

Ken there are many many more than you think iterested in improving sales of customer rods. A seminar at the 2008 ICRBE dealt exactly with a few of the subjects you noted. The seminar on sales and marketing of custom rods using feature/benefit analysis and need satisfaction was presented using interactive format to a large group of builders. The ability of custom builders to use proven professional skill sets to present custom rods to potential customers was dealt with in a role play situation using current build components and practices. I think any of those in attendance would agree that the ICRBE also deals with those areas you describe. If you would like a copy of the text of the seminar for personal use please contact me via email.

If you are interested in recieving a full blown sales and marketing course with models for feature benefit analysis for a specialty business they are available from Xerox or many other business consultants located in most major cities. The normal course will require about 10 days and will cost approximately $4,000.

Gon Fishn



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2008 11:47AM by Bill Stevens.

You'd need 2 things to come together to get such a thing going... First, somebody to dig deep enough into their pockets to get it up and running and providing tangible benefits. You can't build an organization or association on promises of what you plan to do. You have to have proof of what you are already doing. Second, enough builders to make a go of it.

I don't think you're going to find either. I wish you luck but if you want business type help you might be better off looking into small business classes at your local community college or finding an association for businesses in general.

.................

My 2 cents! There have been many very informative discussions/threads relating to the business side of the craft right here on this forum and related articles in RM (Bill Stevens does a great business/marketing pesentation at the ICRBE).. Once there is an "official" organization involved, it usually turns "political" and more interested in "turf protecting" and profitability than anything else (that is readily apparent and happening right now!).
While I feel that an INDUSTRY trade assoc is what is needed to ensure the long term viability of this craft, I think that business plans, accounting, etc are pretty much standard in the business world and not that much different from business type to business type. Their is a myriad of help/info available as far as business goes ( local business groups, schools, gov't, etc. Try typing in business help in a Google serach (I quit scrolling after 75 pages of links).

Learning how to build rods NEVER ends and to be even remotely successfull (My opinion) keeping up with new technology, trends, skills, etc is the most important thing and I can't imagine ANY organization[putting egos, self interest or self promotion aside long enough to provide that any better (or even equally as well) as what we already have.

Like Tom, I feel that small local, more informal groups such as the NERB's and others are great!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2008 07:19PM by Mike Barkley.

Ken I agree with Tom,Mike and Bill. As for US to be organized, as a hole we are lucky to see each other wonce a year. Like others have stated the business end of rod building is out there. Get to know rod manufactures and learn how their rods are made and what materials are used in makeing their blanks. This way you can talk with confidence about the blanks you use, the same goes for the components you use. As for how to run a busines and how to advertise. There are business courses. Most custom rod builders never need to advertise. There best advertisment is word of mouth and years of experience. Remember experience costs. If you look around this site you well see most custom rod builders are not located near each othere. There are a few exception like the East Coast, Florida and S. Cal and they are not realclose to each other.
Just my 2 cents. As for an organization. I am fine with this site NO membership fee (unless you want RodMaker). This way we do not have officers, treasures or book keeps to deal with. Just my 2 cents worth. Also no one gives a crap about my spelling. When Emory H needs a laugh he looks at my post. My comedy spelling act isfree for all to read.
Good Wraps Bob

Bob,
Your posts have not been any fun since you put that 100 amp fuse in your computer to keep the spell checker from blowing the main fuse any time it attempted to correct your spelling.
If there is a new group formed I am going to nominate you as the Vice President of Spelling.

SPEL CHEK OFF ! Tanks Mr. E I will haply teke the posetion :))
Good Wraps Bob

Ken;
You and some of the others on this site might not realize it, because of his light hearted humor that appears on many of his post.

But Mr. Bill Stevens is a master at marketing. His seminar on marketing the builder and the rods they build at the ICRBE last year. Was with out a doubt one of the Best presented, Planned out, and Informative at the event.

If a builder (business owner) could not take what he presented and build on it to successfully market himself and his product. Then he should take on a partner that can handle it form him.
If you did not have a chance to attend his presentation last year, then I highly recommend you do so this year. You will not be disappointed and will walk away pretty much all you need know to accomplish what you are looking for yourself.