Please HELP!
First timer....Read Tom's book, kept handy. Ordered from mudhole the beginner kit with epoxies, etc from Flex Coat. Well, as Tom stated, the finish was hardening before my eyes and turning into a goopy gel!! I was trying to go fast, but this stuff was just getting too goopy to work with. Needless to say, I've gotten the handle wraps (for hook keeper) and the first 2 guides epoxied, but not thrillingly so. Here is my problem, I've got no brushes, as the 2 I had turned to rock themselves. I've got enough epoxy in the tubes to do 3 more batches, so thats not an issue. But, I will not be able to get anymore guides done until I get new brushes which will happen tomorrow at the earliest. So, question 1 is will there be any noticeable difference in the guides if I have to wait a few days to finish the others? Question 2 is once they're dry and if they look crappy (presumably they will) what can I do?? While it was gelling I tried warming it and evening it out, but the brush was making things worse. There's no real lumps I can see, it just doesn't appear that all the areas were evenly applied. I'd hate to waste a batch just to use a toothpick for the small area problems. According to the flex coat insert this stuff was supposed to set to the touch within 6hrs. I measured out 3ml from both tubes and just rechecked to make sure I was not seeing something. This pole was a gift from the wife who knew how much I wanted a Gloomis, so unfortunately it's not something I'd just say eh, whatever, as long as it's functional. I want it to look good too. It means a lot to me and to the wife. I want to thank anyone who answers in advance and also tell everyone who does these rods that I'd underestimated this hobby completely; it's more difficult (at least to get right and look good) then I'd ever imagine. But, now I'm determined to get this right and also am hooked on this rodbuilding hobby!! Thank you.

First question is how long did it take to harden? You should have had at least half hour working time. Were the two parts an EXACT 50=50 mix? Waiting a day or so won't hurt (longer than that, just lightly scuff the first coat wit scotchbrite or fine sandpaper for better adhesion. Manu use spatulas instead of brushes but if you're in a hurry, any craft shop will have the packs of small kid's art brushes for about $2 for 20 of them. There is a very good article on appling finish in the Library at the top of this page.
Let us know how it turns out!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Roger, Dont sweat it. It will all work out. When you measure your finish use syringes to get the exact amounts. If you warm your finish after it is mixed it will harden and gel up faster. Make sure you mix it for at least a couple minutes to fully mix. When applying finish with a brush dont use it like a brush - load the brush with epoxy, lower it to the rod and rotate it one turn move over and turn again. The more you play with the finish the worse it will be. Let the finish do what its supposed to do. Now just mix up a new batch of finish and go over everything. Each guide should only take half a minute or so. Good Luck!!

Aaron Anderson
Beaver Rods

Mike, Thanks for the reply. Took honestly 15mins to set. As I said, 3ML out of tube A and B. I was thinking the same thing, too much hardener, but that wasn't the case. "Many use spatula's", are you referring to plain ole cooking spatula's? I am doing this in my office, it's 69 climate controlled degree's in here for reference. In any case, there is a Staples across the parking lot, and they only had the kids "Crayola" brushes, which looked like they'd fail apart instantly and make my day even worse. As for waiting to do the wraps, what I meant was I've only got the first two done, there are still 4 plus the tip top threads to do. I presumed that since it's the same thread/same finish epoxy I'd see no difference, but wanted to be sure of that. Possibly dumb question, Scotchbrite I've seen mentioned numerous times. Is that a supply house item only or can it be store bought? Thanks again.

Hi Roger.

We've all been there on our first builds. Epoxy can be intimidating the first time or two. As Mike said, the first thing to remember is a 50 - 50 mix. (most important)
Best working temp for epoxy is 78 to 80 deg. By heating it, you hastened your problem. Epoxy is a liquid and will self level. The more you mess with it, the more chance you have of introducing contaminants. Apply your epoxy to all your wraps, as Aaron said, it should only take you about 30 secs to do a wrap, and then come back and add or remove epoxy as needed, once all of them are done. Then keep turning your rod 180 deg. every 10 to 15 minutes for the first couple hours and leave the epoxy alone. Doing your other wraps a day or two later won't affect anything. Your second coat of epoxy will be a real light coat, and will dress up everything. If you have a few air bubbles in your mix, I use a soda straw and just blow air on the bubbles. They should disapate instantly.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

Harold

Aaron,
First thanks for the tips on the way to apply it. I think I screwed myself by setting it in the rod dryer and applying as it turned.?.? Better off hand turning?
I presume your not speaking of the plastic syringes the stuff comes in? If not, do you mean real like hypodermic syringes? Sorry for the ignorance.
If it wasn't for this place I'd be lost!

Roger

Don't use regular medical syringes as they have silicone in them. Use the ones supplied by Flex-coat or other similar epoxy supplier as these are silicone free.

Harold

Do make sure you're using epoxy thread finish and not epoxy adhesive - there is some difference.

..............

Roger where are you located. If you look at the Directory at the top of this page you may find a rodbuilder withing range for direct communication. If you can spend a few minutes with them many of the mysteries will instantly go away like Poof! Most will be really glad to assist and show you how things work - you learning curve will be increased significantly and you will probably make a friend for life.

Gon Fishn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2008 06:05PM by Bill Stevens.

Not kitchen spatulas, but small ones. Most suppliers sell them, but the famous McDonalds coffee stirrers work very well, and are disposable.

Roger - not dumb questions at all, don't ever think that. Nothing you've done is anything we all haven't done.

Let me make a few suggestions:

Mix your epoxy finish in the mixing cup made for the purpose. That will ensure a good mix, which is just as important as getting the 50-50 measures right. Mix it for about 3-4 minutes, until you feel it "release" and start to get easier to mix.

Use a dryer motor and support stand to turn the rod while you are applying the finish. The spatulas that are referre-to above can be purchased from Mud Hole, but the little Flex Coat brushes will work too. As was said, don't brush, just apply. The turning motion will level the finish on the wrap. That's the primary prupose of turning the rod during the finish process.

DON'T USE HEAT until the finish has set up a bit and is still tacky. If you must use heat, do it very carefully and the only purpose should be to level the finish where it might have got lumps or bubbles. Use a hair dryer and be very "shy" of putting it too close or using the "high" setting. The finish will flow and level once heated. BTW, the spatula eliminates many bubbles that come off a brush, because it doesn't hold air.

The finish has a pot life of from 15 mins to 20 mins. Expect some waste as the stuff will dry before you get all the guides finished - that's a matter of practice. The more rods you do, the quicker this will go. And it doesn't matter if you do one guide per day, they will all turn out looking the same once they cure.

If you need any more help, please don't hesitate to email me directly. Anyone here will do the same.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Roger,
You have received good advice above. It sounds like this rod is very important to you. Because it is, you may want to take a break and order some additional thread wrap epoxy so that you can do some practice wraps on some scrap fishing rod blanks if you have access to some. Wrap short sections as if they were holding a guide foot, and practice applying epoxy as if it was the finished rod. Practice until you receive the results you would like to see on your finished rod - then do your epoxy applications on the rod you're building. You'll then be working on the rod confidently, with less apprehension.

Jeff Shafer

15 min. is too soon and rodbuilding epoxy usually doesn't come in a tube. Listen to Tom. Are you sure you have rod buiding finish or some other type of epoxy. They are not the same.

Roger, what exactly does it say on the "epoxy" tubes??? It really sounds like you are using tubes of Flexcoat epoxy adhesive, not epoxy rod finish

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Once you mix your finish, pour it out on a flat surface. Never apply it from the mixing cup or you might apply a little finish that didn't get completely mixed and then you will have the opposite problem where the finish doesn't set up. The flat surface can be a piece of aluminum foil which will slow down it's setting up time. you can also put a Ceramic tile, that is cool, under the foil to keep the finish cooler and retard it from setting up so fast. Also when you mix the finish, you "fold" the finish so as not adding too many bubbles and you mix until when you look at it closely it is completely crystal clear and you can't see any "WISPYNESS" in the finish which will indicate it is not completely mixed. And you can certainly use a brush to apply the finish. You just need to know there are a few things you need to do. When you start loading the brush the first time, just lay it on it's side in the finish. the finish will seep into the bristles and displace the air. you apply the finish by allowing the finish to wick off the brush onto the thread as the rod is turned. You can hand turn the rod or use the dryer or lath to turn the rod while you apply the finish. If you apply while the dryer turns the rod you might have a little problem getting it done when the machine is turning real slow. The advantage of using a brush is it will ride over the guide foot hump better than a spatula. The spatula does a good job of making a nice straight edge of epoxy, but a better quality brush will also do that. You have to go through a little more trouble cleaning a brush than a spatula and if you use a brush you may find an occasional bristle in the finish, but you can stop that.

Kerry

Flex Coat Resin A Rod Wrapping Finish on one tube.
Flex Coat Hardener B Rod Wrapping Finish on the other tube.

The Adhesive your referring to is Flex Coat Rod Builders Epoxy Glue Resin A
Flex Coat Rod Builders Epoxy Glue Hardener B

Both the Adhesive and Finish came in clear plastic tubes 12ML full.

Thanks to all the respondents that provided advice and encouragement. After some scotchbrite use on the first two screwups, the second round of finish epoxy seemed to stay plyable for plenty long enough for me to get the job done. I also now see what everyone was speaking of when they stated not to "brush" the epoxy on but load and lower, it works much better! Still have to work on the straightness of my outer edges, but otherwise progress has been made. I can't wait to fish this thing. Thank you all so much.