i have noticed that a lot of fishermen are buying and having made the split grip and no fore grip..could anyone tell me what to use up against the reel seat if i don'e install a foregrip?

Hi Richard,

I build shallow water bucktail jigging rods for fluke, summer flounder. The goal is to remove as much weight as possible in order to regain sensitivity. The reel seat is still used but I am looking for ways to eliminate that short of duck/electrical tape.

At each end of the reel seat I install a 1/4" wide ring of black eva. I cut it from short pieces of grips.

You could also use a cork ring.

Capt Neil Faulkner

5 min epoxy and here's how:

Sand rod and edge of reel seat with 400grit paper the entire length where the ramp will be located, wipe clean. Mix 5 minute flex-coat rod building epoxy, about 2cc's of each part. Place rod in dryer and begin rotating. Dab mixed epoxy onto blank with brush and work it up to the reel seat edge. Add as much epoxy and you can to that area and still keep it there as you "work" the epoxy to keep it in place as the rod is turning. As the epoxy starts to thicken slightly, get the ramp as even as possible with the brush.When ramp starts to stay in place on it's own leave it alone. While the rods spinning mix another 2cc's and repeat process, in this application the ramp will really start to take a nice shape, when it does and starts to thicken again, LET IT BE, the dryer will "even out" the ramp FOR YOU (warming the epoxy a touch with a lighter at this stage can help thin it and smooth out a ramp IF it needs it).While the ramp is evening itself out as the rod turns, mix your last batch of 2cc's and repeat. This 3rd epoxy step is NOT always needed!!! Depends upon how well you did with your 1st 2 coats.Keep in mind that you WANT to leave a little room for thread or paint that will go on the ramp AS WELL AS two coats of finish epoxy!! So your ramp should be a tad SHY of coming to the edge of the reel seats LOWEST POINT.....meaning: that cut straight line that the hood rides inside, you don't want epoxy in that gully at all, it will imped the hoods movement-not good!Once ramp is built and still warm, wrap it with thread or paint it right then, the softer epoxy in the next hour + holds the thread nicely or allows the paint to soak into the epoxy well: both are GOOD. Now lay two coats of finish over your ramp-you're done! Here's one: [www.rodbuilding.org]

DR

If you are using a Castaway arborless fully exposed reel seat nothing - or a winding check - thread ramp.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

All available at [www.swamplandtackle.com]

Duane,
You have really done a very nice job of that but if you are doing that to save weight you may not be gaining what you hope you are gaining in weight reduction. Epoxy is surprisingly heavy. That epoxy in front of the reel seat will be heavier than a small fore cork. The same is true for the decorative wrap in the gap of some split grips.

I just cut a small short section of EVA. Make it a half inch or so long and just taper it sharply. Or, use a large winding check and let it go at that.

I do like Duane, not so much to save weight as to allow my thumb or finger to lay on the blank without a foregrip in the way.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Try a single cork ring, sized to "cap off" the front of the reel seat, and tapered to meet the shaft of the rod. It's actually a really short foregrip, and allows you to finish with a winding check, which gives an even more "finished" appearance. You can use all sorts of the exotic corks, dark, red, etc.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

I do as Bill Stevens suggests by using American Tackle arborless seats.
Since He introduced the Castaway seats at the show I have used a few of them as well.
The castaway seats provide more blank exposure then the American tackle seats.

Matagi have a winding checks suited for a foregripless design. They also have special sleeves for the KPDS locking nut which finishes the fron the seat nicely.

Emory,

Thank you.

You may save a TINY bit of weight by not using an epoxy ramp, but the comfort and feel of the ramp is MORE than worth the so small weight of the epoxy. I'll weigh one next time and see what the ramp weigh's, my guess is it being so next to nothing that not even the most trained hand could feel any difference.

DR

Duane,
My point was that many builders are building rods with split grips and no fore cork because they feel that they are saving weight but in many cases they are actually increasing the weight. In the case of your epoxy ramp, while I think that it is attractive, I will guarantee you that it weighs several times as much as a fore cork of the same size. In fact, I suspect that you have as much epoxy in your ramp as is on all of the guides on the rod combined. But if you are not concerned with the added weight and are doing it because you think that the epoxy is more comfortable than a less dense material would be then that is obviously your choice.

One other idea, is to take the next larger size of one of the dark colored brick foam arbors, shoulder it to hold the forward area of the reel seat and then taper the remaining part down to the blank. That way your forward arbor is doing 2 jobs - supporting the seat and finishing off that area cosmetically.

...................

I like that idea Tom... thanks.

Emory... you hit a key point... "I will guarantee you that it weighs several times as much as a fore cork of the same size"... the epoxy ramp isn't more than .5" long. I know I have never seen a cork forgrip that short. While you may not be saving weight compared to a .5" cork foregrip, you are saving by going to a shorter/smaller foregrip, regardless of foregrip composition.

Add to that there is weight from the epoxy used to adhere the cork grip as well, we can't be talking but a few grams here.

"I will guarantee you that it weighs several times as much as a fore cork of the same size"... Emory, that statement I do not agree with, YET, but.....like I stated, I will weigh one on the next build. But like Alex suggested, we're only talking mere grams here, and the fact that the epoxy ramp is located at the very BEST possible place on the build (in your hand) I'll bet you cant feel the difference in weight, no one could. Now if the epoxy ramp were on the tip end of the rod, I'd say you may have merit = less is best in that area.

With rod building, rods that weigh typically less is a good thing, but we must also consider comfort, after all, we do have to fish with one in our hand do we not? "Splitting hairs" may be great for online discussions, but in this real world that same hair will never be an issue in the fishermans hand.

DR

Rich - get the RodMaker issues that have the no fore-grip and split grip articles. They will give you enough info. Basically on a no fore-grip, thread and thread epoxy is enough.

Alex and Duane,
I think that it is only rational to compare the weights of the epoxy ramp and other materials that are the same size. I do not know exactly what the difference in density is but I would guess that epoxy is close to an order of magnitude more dense than cork.
I will agree that the added weight of the epoxy ramp is positioned near the best place on the rod in terms of the affect on most of the properties of the rod but not all of the properties of the rod. I do not want to get into the complexities of sensitivity except to point out that when the rod is held at a low angle it makes no difference where any added weight (mass) is on the rod. At a low angle it has as much affect at the butt as it does at the tip. When the tip of the rod is raised then of course any added weight at the butt has much less affect than an equivalent weight at the tip.
Duane,
I think that a discussion about a difference of opinion can take place without insulting comments like your comment about splitting hairs. Plus I think that your comment about the added comfort of the epoxy ramp is just plain @#$%&. Epoxy is no more comfortable than many other materials.

I agree with that Emory. You have to do apples to apples, with apples here being size of the fore "piece".

What comes to my mind in addition to weight though is there is no way I know of to use the same amount of mass from cork as is in place with an epoxy ramp and have a stable piece of cork. I'm sure it could be done, but I don't feel it's even worth trying.

While epoxy may not be any more comfortable, I believe there is a benefit in this design that allows you to palm a reel more comfortably without a foregrip. In this case, it's the design that feels more comfortable, not the epoxy being a more comfortable material for construction.

Emory, this discussion was started by you, re-read above.

My comment of "splitting hairs" was NOT meant to be an insult to you at all. It was meant to show that there is only a "hairs" difference, if any, and it need not be debated to death over something as small as the difference of weight between a cork forgrip and an epoxy ramp that lays in the "balance" part of the rod.

I have yet to see anyone here that can say: "I can feel the weight difference between the two in my hand" , I doubt anyone ever will, and thats what really matters. Meaning: the weight of an epoxy ramp just doesn't matter versus a cork forgrip, the difference is just THAT small if any at all.

Alex got the comfort part covered pretty well.

DR

Richard, Alex, Duane,
Don't get me wrong. I am not arguing that the split grip and no fore grip do not reduce weight and are not a good idea. I was just attempting to point out that in some cases people are adding back in more weight in epoxy than they are removing in cork.