I am reading Dale Clemmens book, Advanced Custom Rod Building, and in it he is quite adamant about the importance of spine. Most of the recent posts here, however, seem to indicate that spine is not that important. I realize that when it comes to opinions, there are no "right" answers, but have any engineers addressed this question from a purely empirical standpoint? In other words, is there any scientific evidence supporting one view or the other?

But he never said why it was important. And the fact that most factories don't do it and many if not most custom builders no longer do it and their rods all work fine tends to tell me that it can't be very important.

I've read it all. I believe Tom did some casting tests with a mechanical device and said spine played no part of importance. I also tend to agree that once you put guides on a rod and have line out through them and a fish pulling on the line that all the stuff about hand rolling a naked blank tends to go out the window as these aren't the same thing. Guides will always try to spin to the bottom no matter where the spine is. The stuff about spine stopping rod twist seems to have been a myth.

I no longer spine my rods. I build on the straightest axis and feel my rods are now better than before, although I've never really had any trouble with any of them, spined or not.

I'll build on the spine/spline, whatever the proper term is, when I have a straight blank. If it has a bend to it, and it works out the spine is on it, so much the better. If it doesn't then I'll build on the straightest axis.

I can see why factories don't do it; it's time-consuming and would add to their costs.
I can beleieve that it has no effectwhen fighting a fish; under a load like that, of course the guides will seek the bottom of the rod.
But, what about casting accuracy?

It will make no difference.

Why not try it for yourself and see? Wouldn't take long to mock up a rod and spend an hour casting and seeing if you feel it makes any difference for you.

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I am not sure that my casting abilities are consistent enough to give an accurate representation, but I want to build a rod where the angler is the limiting factor, not the rod. In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure it's not too important, today. But, 6 or 7 years ago it must of been a big deal; Tom's book addresses spining, and posts from that era, indicate that builders then were very comitted to spine/spline.

George,

My book certainly addresses it and points out why it really doesn't matter. The information it contained was considered heresy when I first began discussing the same matter way back in the early 1980's. One of the main naysayers, who had told me earlier that the way I built my spinning rods would actually result in the guides twisting up to the top of the rod when a fish was fought, ended up reversing their stance and actually agreeing with me after finally doing a few simple tests of their own in the late 1990's.

And you also want to remember that not everyone bought into the spine myth to begin with. In the booklets he published in the late 1960's and early 1970's, Gene Bullard advised to overlook the spine and build on the straightest axis.

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If you can do it, why not do it.
It really takes no more than 10 seconds to spine a rod, and it certainly won't hurt anything to spine and it may help - particularly on rods that have a terrific spine.

On the other hand, from time to time you might want to build on a blank that is not straight. Yes, I know that production blanks are screened to be straight before shipment. But for a multitude of reasons, you may have a blank that has a crook in its tip or a slight tapering bend.

If you do end up deciding to build on a blank that is not straight, then it is quite important to build on the blank, so that when in use, the droop is always down. It is not that it will fish much differently, but any time that a person sites down a rod that has a bend in it, the bend will be obvious if the rod isn't built so that the bend droops down. If the bend droops down, the rod is simply bending in the same direction as it would if there were a fish loading the rod.When one sites straight down a rod that has the guides placed so that any bend might simply show up as a droop, the bend essentially disappears in the build of the rod.

However, if you build on a rod with a bend and have the bend go sideways when in use - the bend will be apparent on every cast of the rod.

Take care
Roger

Here we go again!!!

This topic comes up as frequently as the TIPPING the Mate topic comes up on fishing forums.

This will never be put to rest one way or another. Is chocolate or vanilla ice cream best? That also has yet to be definitivly answered.

Take TK's advice, build by building on the same model blank, one using the spine and one with whatever way you want. This way you can form your own opinion.

Most anglers will never know the difference, don't care or have no idea.

Bottom line is do what pleases you and works for you.

Capt Neil Faulkner

I would position the "droop" up. This allows the more powerful axis to aid in the reaction of the blank to the angler's input.

Also, the weight of the guides and any on the water inertia from simple angler or lure movement tends to favor positioning the blank with the droop up (tip and butt up, belly down). The rod tends to stay straighter this way.

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just got through experimenting with this.4 identical rods.2 with tip down,butt down.2 with tip up ,butt up.the latter proved,in my opinion,to be the better rods.i tested with the same reel and same baits.thanks for the help Tom.i will not build the other way.

If the spine was really important then not spining would result in all sorts of problems. Guess what? It doesn't.

Any of us old enough to remember when all blanks were glass can tell you that you had to build on the straightest axis because those old glass numbers would eventually all take a set, and they set along the droop or the axis that had any curve to it. If you put that anywhere other than in line with the guides you would end up fishing with a banana off to one side, or a with a droop so bad it looked like you had a fish on your line even when you had nothing on it.

Put the straightest axis in line with your guides and set it so any bow is up. We did this with the old glass rods and I do it today with the graphite models. Still works great.

I'm going to strongly disagree with Ken, Tom, and everyone else who says it doesn't matter - the reason the most manufacturers don't mess with spine is because it would take extra time. That means extra cost, and that ain't gonna happen - . But as custom rod builders, we have the time to pay attention to spine if we want to.

Those of you who know me know what I'm gonna say next. I'm not sure if Clemens ever gave a reason for his emphasis on spine in his books, but I actually talked to him "live voice" a lot of years ago and asked the question of "why" and he very patiently explained the idea to me and I've never built a rod that wasn't set up on-spine. The advantages in the way our rods cast, and fight a fish, are apparent not only us, but more importantly, to our customers. Now, I will modify my position a bit - we build on the "effective spine", which is evidenced when you put a rod into one of the spining devices (the technical spine is a different thing). And no, it's not the straightest axis either - if we get a rod bent that badly, we use it foir scrap. And just for fun, if it doesn't matter, how come every catalog mentions it and diagrams how to find it, and how come there are several models of spine finder tools available in most catalogs as well? Apparently, there's enough people who use it to make a market for the tools, eh?

I've been excoriated here for saying this, but the best true custom golf clubs are built on-spine, especially with the newer high-end "soft" shafts for us old folks. And don't tell me about the difference in use between a rod and a golf club, with one used for casting and the other for hitting a solid object at high speed. We're talking about minimizing torque and twist, not impact /vs/ no impact.

Not important because not doing it doesn't cause "all sorts of problems"? OK, even if I agreed with that (which I don't), my comeback would be that, as custom builders, we owe it to our customers - even if "they" are "us" - to enhance the rod's dynamics as much as we could, and I believe that spine plays a part in doing that. And Capt. Neil, we've done exactly that - and that's why we build on-spine.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

My opinion is that it is totally irellevant, but if you want to spine, fine., it won't hurt.. I've yet to see a provable reason or theory that offers any evidence of any benefit

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Lively debate!

But I guess the answer to my question would be: No, we have no scientific evidence; that's why everyone is still arguing about it/discussing it.

If nothing else, it gives a rodbuilder one more option to offer his customer: "Would you like me to maximize the rod's casting accuracy or its fish-fighting ability?" (for spine/spline afficianados)

Or, it gives the builder a chance to show off his attention to detail: "All blanks are slightly warped, as a result of the manufacturing process. Take a look down this blank. See that? I will align the guides on your rod to counter-act this droop, giving you a fishing tool that is much straighter than anything you could ever buy at Big Pro Sporting Goods or Super Wilbur World." (for straightest-axis adherents)

Dale Clemens never tested his "theory" with any sort of mechanical device. I did. Spine makes no difference and Dale was 100% wrong in saying that spine orientation could prevent or cause rod twist. Even his old organization, RodCrafters, ultimately followed my lead with some tests and changed a good deal of their philosophy on spine and what it could and couldn't do.

Spine finding tools have been a good business for many - beginning rod builders will almost always be interesting in buying one. Still, there is a not a single spine finder on the market that approximates what happens when a fish is on the line. These are two entirely different things.

It is impossible to spine a rod incorrectly. You cannot put the spine in the wrong place. It has been the bane of so many aspiring rod builders - worrying some to the point that they simply chose not to even try to build their own rods. I believe it was always intended as a marketing tool, perhaps even hype, well intentioned but something that has never mattered and may have done more harm to the craft than any other single item.

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The thing that always amazed me when talking to spine advocates is that some put "spine" on top, some put it on the bottom. Some refer to effective spine, some to physical (is their even such a thing?) spine. I know two good builders that are firm believers in using the spine, but each uses the opposite side and both get good results. That tells me that it just doesn't matter (at least to me)

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I have to somewhat disagree with, "you don't have to spline a rod." maybe when building a conventional boat rod or when building a Roberts Wraped rod, splineing is not necessary; I do build on the spline and I have "rebuilt" some rods that were not casting properly
( I'm talking surf rods)(rods that were built by some other "rod builder") because the guides were not on the correct spline. when the guides were removed and put on their proper spline/axis (the reel seat also had to be changed in this case) the rod DID cast much better; you could hear the difference in the cast, smooth and precise! When not splined, the line would rub the side of the guides in the cast, and the cast would end up either to the right or to the left, never on target. this has been tested.

The last time I observed Mr. Kirkman and Mr. Pollack involved in "on stage live verbal communication" Mr. Kirkman was loudly making repeated calls for another cold beer! I think a double shot toast of Jack Daniels would now be more appropriate to firm up his spinal alignment!

Paul,

Yes it has been tested and what you describe didn't happen when done on a mechanical casting device that removed all human error.

The lever arm effect of the guides always overcomes any spine effect - we know this for a fact, we don't have to guess or speculate.

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