I'm rebuilding a 9ft surf rod that is rated for 1 to 3 0z waight 15 to 25 lb. line on a spincaste . should I use an under wrap on the the guilds? the guilds are two footed guilds. and should I use a, or d,tread? for the under wrap or the guild wraps?

Hi Marty,

If you prep your guides properly you will not need a underwrap.You need to be sure that there are on spurs and anything else that can cause damage to the blank. On almost every saltwater rod we build we do underwraps because we like the looks of them but they are not necessary.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

thank you (Hank) I was thanking about a under wrap jest to dress it up a little and make it mine! But if I go with the under wrap what should I use a or d ??

Use "A" Marty if you wanna dress it up and make it yours.

Hi Marty,

Use "A" fie under & over wrap. Lay down your underwraps, apply a coat of epoxy finish then do the overwrap. The reason for the epoxy is so the overwrap does not does not fall down between the underwrap threads. Some people use color preserver instead of epoxy but I found epoxy easier for me.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

I have been practicing on an old rod and my best result come from an underwrap of "A" thread and then use size "D" to hook the guides on.

I've built quite a few rods like the one you're building, and on these I use underwraps. It is correct, from a functionality standpoint, that you don't need them, but I like the way they look, and a rod with an underwrap is probably slightly more resistant to damage from being banged around than a rod without an underwrap is (I say "probably" because I don't have any definitive evidence to back up this claim). And, like I said, I like the way the rod looks with an underwrap.

For the last 9-foot surf rod I built, I used a metallic underwap in Size A, then an overwrap in Size D black thread. You can use A if you like, but I'm lazy, and it's a lot easier to wrap D over A, and using D for your top wrap on a rod this size and weight isn't going to make much difference in your finished product.

Do whatever you want on this rod. You'll be fine with or without underwraps. You don't need them, but this is a long and heavy enough rod that the extra weight from the underwraps will have virtually no impact on the finished rod's performance.

I am going to offer an opinion that is likely to be in the minority. Unless you want underwarps for the look, and don't care about achieving ultimate performance, go ahead and use the underwraps.

I only build on long surf rods, 9' to me is an extremely small rod, that is the shortest rod I have ever built. Most of my rods are in the neighborhood of 13-14' and adding more weight (heavier guides, more epoxy, underwraps, etc.) out on the tip can have a very noticeable effect. Adding underwraps may not matter on a heavy duty trolling rod, where you might want the extra protection, and your not worried about casting distance, but on a surf rod I simply don't like adding any extra weight.

I have built on identical blanks (13'6") with and without underwraps and used very light guides (gold cermets) on one, versus standard alcanites on the one with the underwraps., The feel and action, plus recovery difference is definitely noticeable. Then again I like to compete in long distance casting tournaments, and spend a lot of time pushing my rods to their max potential. To the average joe, the difference may in fact, be some what irrelevant. But I would bet at the end of the day, if your doing some serious plugging and holding of the rod, the lighter you build it the more you will appreciate that lightness once you start to get tired.

thanks alot for the info. the rod I wraped it in A under wrap and then went with D guild wrap and the put a little A dress ups. I won't be troughing plugs I'll trough 1 to 1 1/2 oz. with a mullet on it .I may wade out to about maybe cheast deap water to cast .depinds on if I whatch (jaws) before i go fishing! Sofore the rod look great I really like the way the rod is coming out sofare. Again thanks for the info and the help!

Mark, I don't dispute your findings, but I have a question about them. You say that you built two identical rods, one with underwraps and alconite, the other with gold cermet and no underwraps. You also say that there was a noticeable difference in performance between the two, which, again, I don't dispute.

My question, though: how much of the noticeable difference was due to the lighter guides, and how much because of the underwrap? I ask because I suspect that most of the difference is due to the guides, not the underwrap. I admit that underwraps cause the rod to weigh more, but my experiences (though I hasten to admit that I've never built two rods side-by-side, one with underwraps and one without, to compare) on stout surf rods show me that the effect of underwraps is pretty much negligible. I did a bunch of tinkering when I built my nine-foot plugging rod (built on a Rainshadow SU1087), and I came to the conclusion that while a discerning angler might, if given a side-by-side comparison, notice the extra weight from underwraps, as a practical matter it didn't make enought of difference to worry about it one way or another. I can see how on very long, high-performing blanks it might make a difference, but on the short, stout rods I (and most people) use in the surf it matters very, very little.

Chris, I understand and don't totally disagree that the average caster may not be able to discern enough of a difference, and as some have said I ocassionally like the look of an underwrap.

I wanted to make as much of a difference as possible in the two rods. While underwraps by themselves don't add significant weight, guides with underwraps also get more epoxy across the entire guide, here again not a huge difference, but when you start to add it all up, the rod does weigh more, and it's performance is affected, if only slightly. Whether or not that difference is significant depends on the particular rod and type of fishing. Most won't notice the weight if your simply casting bait out and spiking the rod in a rod holder. On the other hand if your either plugging hard or wading out to a bar where you need to hold the rod full time, eventually any extra weight becomes a factor- perhaps not immediately , but as time goes by.

Not sure what your definition of a short , stout rod is, but that would of course come into play.