Fuji TATSG single foot titanium guides are my favorite. Really like their visual aesthetics and lightweight.

However, sometimes I need the size 25 to be LESS TALL.

Is there a way to STRAIGHTEN the feet and post, and then put a new bend on it to change the height of the ring off the guide? I really don't want to give up these guides but do want ideal height.

Right now, for some rods, to get the ideal height, I would have the butt guide (size 25) about 16 inches from the reel outer lip. A bit close. I'm using these with size 1000 and 2000 spin reels.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Mo

Mo, sounds like you are set on using the size 25 butt guide. Now, at 16 inches from the spool face, I also think that's a little close, and that leaves you looking for less height? How does the size 20 work? Are you using the Daiwa or Shimano 1000/2000's?

If you want a lower guide closer to the reel then all I can suggest is the size 20. Reworking the foot of the titanium alloy would probably take a lot of work, and may involve some heating. Not sure how the alloy would respond to that. If the 25 is too high at 16" move it out further, or step down to the next size if you can.

If you work inside the New Concept guidelines, then you won't be far off using 1/2 spool diameter, 19-23 " from spool.

Mo;
Does the outer lip of the reel spool measure 50 mm ? If it is less then 50 mm you could probably drop down to a size 20 stripper and get the distance and height you want without sacrificing any performance. Just a thought.

Sorry Ted, we were typing at the same time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2008 12:43AM by Jay Hunt.

Thanks guys.

1. No, my spool is currently NOT 16" away. If I was going to use taller guide like the 25, then to get the right height, I'll have to move it CLOSER to the reel - hence the 16" distance. I don't want to be that close. The future one gets away from the reel, the lower the line gets right? So the closer one gets, the higher the line is. (Am I making sense?)

2. A size 25 is not actually 25mm in the inner diameter. In testing, I believe that the size 25 gives noticeably greater casting distance with this particular blank/reel combo. yes, Daiwa/Shimano size 1000 and 2000.

Appreciate any additional comments.

Thanks,
Mo

No probs Jay.

Daiwa's spools are wider than Shimano's spools in the same sizes (1003 vs 1000, 2000) by a couple millimetres I think.

Actually Mo, the height does not change at all. What changes is the angle of line coming off the spool. It will still be brought to the same height, but at a different spot on the rod blank. So it isn't a matter of "ideal" height, just a matter of distance along the rod from the spool to keep the line flow fairly close to the upsweep angle of the reel. Now, I am not saying you're wrong: I get what you are after completely. Line flow from spool to choker, kind of like the table edge method. I use the 27X to find the location of my choke guide, then I put a strip of tape at 19" and 23". Then I take a guide that has the 1/2 spool diameter ring, and move it around inside that range, using the table edge method to align spool shaft and line frame edges. If I can't get that alignment without going too far outside the 19-23" range, go up or down in size, depending on whether the guide is too short or too tall. I also set up so that the ring coincides with measurement marks, not the foot.

What you'll find is too close constricts the flow by bringing the line too sharply up. The friction will slow it down so much that line coming off the reel will shoot ahead of the guide and get brought back, slapping the frame. The angle from line to ring is too sharp.
Conversely, too far away and the line loses energy due to gravity, and sags too much before being pulled through the guide. When this happens the line billows off the spool, is not really choked down and slaps the blank in big loops. Angle here is too shallow.

So a 25 gives you the best casting distance. At what distance from the reel spool? Use that measurement, and orient the transition guides between that butt guide and your choke guide to suit. Static test, load distribution test, and test cast away.

Mo;
If you of set the handle like I do it will move the line further away from the blank, which would allow you to move your 25mm guide further out from the reel. But like the others I think the 20mm will also work for you.

Mo,
One way to find out:

Use a couple of pairs of pliars - straighten the foot, rebend it to the point that you want for height.

If you find that the metal breaks when you do this; you know that you will have to add heat to the equation.
If not, it is good to go. You might find that you have to prep the sides of the guide foot a bit to soften the - then upturned sides of the foot.

I haven't done this with the particular guide that youare speaking of - but I have done it to quite a few other guides of different makes and brands, to get a guide just the right height to match the line flow.

p.s.
Also, after doing the reforming of the foot - look at the bend under a strong magnifier, to see if there is any kind of potential stress fracture which could give the user a long term problem.
If there is, then it would be a good idea to use heat during the bending process to releive the stress in the metal. If not, you are good to go.

Roger

As a goof/test, I used a TATSG 12 8 and 9 MKSG 2.5's on one blank, and a TATSG 25 12 8 7 TLDGSG size 4 on the same model blank. Both rods casted within feet of each other - no noticeable difference. Major difference in how teh rod felt though - that 25 guide rod felt noticeably heavier than the smaller set up.

I use a Diawa Tierra 2000 with 6# Fireline. I wouldnt' use that small stripper for Mono, but my Shimano Navi 1500 has 10# Fireline and it casted just fine through both set ups.

Mo, I think you could try a different method for aligning your guides. I like to find the choker point, take the spool off the reel and attach it to the reel seat. I then tie a piece of fishing line to the end of the spool shaft and run the line through the guides past the chocker guide. I then pull the line tight between the chocker guide and the spool shaft. Then I move the guides up or down the blank until the line just contacts the inside outer edge of the guide ring. I think you may come up with what you are looking for if you align your guides to the inside edge of the ring instead of the outside edge of the guide frame. I align to the inside edge of the guide ring and sometimes the outside edge of the guide frame, depends on the reel and blank. I think it may be worth a try to see if you can get what you are after. I do not think bending the TATSG guides is a good choice. Have a great day, Rich.

Mo,
There is a slightly different method of aligning guides that Don Morton showed to me several years ago that you might want to consider. I also use small reels (w/10 or 15# braid) with a 25 TATSG butt guide.

It has never made sense to me that when all guides (up to choker) are aligned, they’d resemble an archery target (concentric), BUT the spool would be ECCENTRIC to those.

With the reel installed, I hook the line to the line clip at the side of the spool and then anchor the end of the line just past the choker. With the line taught and the drag loose, I locate/size the guides to the cone generated by rotating the spool. This results in the guides (up to the choker) being concentric with the spool. (I ignore the upsweep angle of the reel because a few degrees only results in a very slight elliptical diameter.) I’m not discounting the effects of gravity, but by setting the guides this way, the line has less distance to be “lifted” to the aligned guides. It also requires higher guides, which may solve your dilemma.

Greetings Guys, Thanks for ALL the suggesions.

Believe it or not, to align the guides, I've incorporated virtually all of your suggestions including Jim, yours about turning the spool to see the cone, and also taking the spool off.

Billy, you talked about using size 12 as a choker with fireline. There's something about fireline that seem to be unaffected by choker size as much as mono. Regardless, what lure weight are you casting. What I find is that after a certain lure weight (i.e. 1/4 oz Kastmaster), one cannot really discern much impact with firelined combined with small choker. However, if one is casting UL lures (i.e 1/20th ounce) and mono (2 lbs), then any LITTLE bit of extra drag measurably affects casting distance. I need to try more but it's just that I noticed that the size 25 SEEM to give noticeably longer casting distance. This is true of mono, but probably not as noticeable with braided, especially not Fireline.

Steve, I hear you about the handle that you do. My grip is actually going the opposite way in getting my reel foot CLOSER to the blank rather than further.

I loath to try bending and breaking such an expensive guide but guess I'll have to try. If I were to heat the feet, what would I use to heat it? How hot? And does it not actually weaken the temper of the titanium? So much that I don't know.....:)

Keep em coming.

Mo

I cast 1/2 - 3/4oz on those particular rods. The reason I mentioned Fireline is because I think that makes all the difference as far as it "slipping" through the smaller stripper. If you've tried a couple of alternative set ups, and settle on teh 25, then that is teh ptimal set up for you. I put mine out there as something you may want to consider trying, I am in no way suggesting that my set up will work best in your situation.

Billy;
Do me a favor and put some mono or floro on your set up and cast it, then let me know how much difference you see in casting distance. I think you might be surprised.

Mo;
I understand what you a re wanting to do "Move blank closer to reel" So why not just do it? Put the blank on the bottom of the handle instead if the top.
You will lose some of the advantages off the blank top handle, but it might accomplish what you are looking to do. Beside if after you set up the handle and tape on guides to see how it functions. If it does not solve your problem, you can just flip the rod over and have a handle on top.
In fact now that I think about it you can take one of the rods you already have built with the offset handle and tape a set of guides on the top side, flip over tape reel on it and cast a few times to see what you think. That way if it does not do what you want? Just remove taped guides and reel. Back to were you started nothing lost in construction.

Steve, I have no reason to use Mono whatsoever. For bouncing jigs tehre is no place for it. I don't even have 8# Mono anymore, lol. I didn't even know it was still allowed to be sold.

Steve,

Like Billy, I have stopped using mono for many years. I paid a 100 bucks for a spare spool for my Stella 1000 thinking that I could have one spool with braid and one with mono. After trying it once, I have never gone back to use the mono spare spool since. Do you mean that a larger stripper guide will work better with mono line for casting?

Thanks to all.

Anthony, no. Actually I think you should just dump that spool. I'll be a glad volunteer to recycle that piece of metal for you and even pay you shipping. Kidding aside, I think that the larger stripper guides SHOULD help a bit - especially if you are using higher test.

Mo

Mo,

Sorry, I still use it but with 4 lb braid now. All my UL are from 1-4 to 6-10lbs line and most of these rods are 5' to max 6'6". Most of my stripper are 16 and they cast beautifully with 4 lb braid. Can't imagine how ugly the whole set-up will be if I were to use 25 strippers.

Billy;
I did not want you to fish with the mono, just do some casting. I was looking for some additional info on how well it will cast through your setup, to coincide with some testing I am doing and some similar setups.

Anthony;
No I do not mean a "larger stripper guide will work better with mono line for casting?" I am doing some testing to see and was trying to enlist Billy's assistance so I would have an outside perspective.

Steve, I really don't have any reels or spare spools with Mono, or any Mono laying around. The one thing you HAVE TO do when running a test is make sure you do the test casting with the same ree. Teh problem with Mono is that while it might cast OK when fresh, that after a couple of trips and it coils a bit it might not. I guess if you fish everyday you would change your line after every couple of trips - I honestly don't know enough about fishing with Mono to say how people go about using it.

I will offer this, while not on the subject of UL Spinning rods, it does deal with comparing braid & MOno on a spinning rod.

A few years ago The NERBs did a test casting gathering, where we wrapped 4 blanks of the same model, with 4 different set ups. We had Spinning reels with one spool braid, one spool Mono, we had several guys make 10 casts with each rod, each line, and recorded teh distance. Long story short - one of the things that stood out was that the best casting set up was teh one with a modified Low Rider Dual Purpose set up, which used a 25 stripper (traditional set ups were size 40 and 50 strippers, stuff like that). What stood out even more was that 17# Mono casted further than I think 30# braid with that set up. This was not a scientific foolproof test, but it was enough to prove to those there what was fact and what was fiction when it came to guide set ups.

Billy;
Do you think it was the friction of the line going through the guides? Or the friction of the "Braided" line going across the face of the spools rim? Thinking about it, it seems to me that is were most of the tension would be