Fellow Rod Builders:
I recently built a 12' spinning rod and tried the Fuji New Concept guide system. The problem I am having is that the Power Pro braided line keeps tangling coming off the spool of my reel creating knots which then gets caught in the guides as my cast is made. I think that the bottom guide is either too close, or too far from the spool thereby creating a situation wherein the line is somehow becoming tangled prior or immediately after passing through the largest guide, closest to the butt of the rod. Not sure if my description of my situation makes any sense, but any hints will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
t

Your line isn't tangling due to the guides - it's either become tangled when you put it on the reel or due to the type lure you're using. Guides don't create line twist, reels and lures do (and fishermen).

Pull all the line off the reel, or at least a segment a little longer than you can cast. Pull it along through some grass, or the water, and make 100% sure you have all the twist out of it. Now reel it back up and try it again. Something put that twist in your line and it wasn't your guides.

...............

Tom is most likely correct, however here are some other thoughts.
If the first cople of guides up from the reel are too far apart, I have had soft braided lines "wrap" around a guide.
Also, it is not uncommon on a long cast to lower the rod tip after the lure/bait hits the water, giving the line some extra slack, and again, a soft line will get a loose loop easier than a mono line, getting caught on a guide, or ending up with a loop on the reel, which will look like a twist on the next cast when it comes off the reel.
Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

Yep
Twist in the line is the likely culprit.
Youngest son ( 25) had this problem with a 10ft saltwater landbased spinning rod a few years back
Rebuilt the damn thing twice trying different type stripper guides to alleviate the problem, because the problem was not seen at the time despite a lot of looking, before the problem was eventually found in the reel.
In his case it was a moulding fault ( an air bubble ) in the stem of the reel, just below the reel foot. It was allowing the reel to twist as he was winding & misaligning the angle of the line onto the bail roller.
i) check your bail roller is functioning perfectly.......... nice & smooth & rolling freely.
ii) get someone to put some tension on your line as you wind line in . wind SLOWLY and watch the braid to see if it is rolling a twist as it passes over the bail roller............... if it is you have an alignment problem.
iii) check that the reel is sitting in the reelseat aimed exactly straight up the rod.
iv) is your drag slipping while you are winding in a lot............ that causes twist. even from fish running & taking line off your reel repeatedly................... fish takes it out with no twist against the drag ..................spinning reels put 1 twist in the line everytime you wind it back on a spinning reel.......... 1 twist per revolution of the bail arm.
Normal use of a spinning reel puts twist in your line when you wind it on and the exact same
number of twists comes out as the line spirals off your reel when you cast out.
v) if you spool up with a new load of line & your problem goes away...............you know the problem is line twist ..................... but if you don't find & fix the problem it will be back to haunt you again soon.
If that finds your problem you are on your way to the solution.
If it hasn't you're on your own to keep looking elsewhere.............. but it will be pretty sure to be twist stored in your line from something.while you have been using it.
Trolling behind a boat with nothing on the end or dragging it thru grass a couple of times as suggested by Tom is a good quick fix.

A neat trick I found for getting twist out of braid is to bend the end of a stout piece of wire into a hook shape & putting the piece of wire into the chuck of a reversible drill & tying the end of the line onto the hook you've made & running the drill in the direction needed to get the twist out after you have the affected section of line out in a straight line & under a bit of tension.
You can see the braid pattern in the line & tell when its straight again.

By the way the manufacturer's agent for the reel in question replaced it free of charge when the problem was identified , even though the reel was a few years old...................because it was a manufacturing fault.
works like a charm now................ after replacing the reel we cut the old reel stem in half in a couple of places to see the extent of the problem.
I have now heard of this problem in a small number of other large spinning reels which are made by injection molding of carbon reinforced plastic............ its not all that common , but it happens............ usually just below the junction of the reel foot & the stem of the reel.
For serious heavy duty work I now use metal framed reels exclusively. The reel in question has been shifted to lighter duty work & is working flawlessly.
DenisB

My "knot problem" with PowerPro is getting the little loop thingy on the first wind and then it comes out on the cast, forms a knot no human could tie and snags on the first guide. Don't forget to manually close the bail and make sure there is tension on the line before reeling.

Thanks to all for the responses. I truly appreciate them.

Tolan

I agree with Steve. Ninety nine percent of “wind knot” problems are from loose line on the spool caused be engaging the bail by turning the reel handle. Engaging the bail manually should solve the problem. Twisted line is not likely the problem since braid is so flexible and has no memory like mono. I also doubt that the guide spacing is part of the problem.

Power Pro and most all braids can be a problem because they are so limp. Some reels are designed to handle "braid" better than others. Look at the reel spool after cranking in all the line. Is the line stacked in the front and rear of the spool sorta in an hour glass shape? If it is, your reel is not braid friendly. With a reel like this, loops of line can "fall " off the high wraps at the front and back of the spool and drop into the lower center section creating a loose loop. Line flowing off the reel during the cast picks up this loop and you have a knot that defies removal by any means other than cutting it out.

Most currently manufactured reels have a system where the line is wrapped on the reel very evenly. This even line lay prevents the braid from digging into itself AND lays the line on the spool uniformly with no hour glass shape. Daiwa invented the concept but most currently produced spinning reels have some form of even line lay feature. The even line lay feature doesn't completely eliminate "wind" knots but it goes a long way towards solving the problem.

As mentioned in other posts above, it's always a good idea to close the bail by hand. It's also a good practice to grab the line coming off the spool after closing the bail and giving it a little pull to remove any loose line that may be there. This procedure becomes second nature after awhile and is a good regimen to follow with either braid or mono but especially braid.

I'm using braid here as a generic term for all the super lines even though some, of course, are not braided. With that in mind, if the knotting problems continue or if your reel IS NOT braid friendly, consider going to Fireline. Fireline isn't braided, it's composed of parallel strands that are bonded together and it is a STIFFER line. The stiffer line will probably solve your knotting problems.

yep
braid sure is limp
it will accomodate a little bit of twist without noticeable problem.
When it gets twisted up enough it has a memory just as bad as mono.
this happens as soon as the twist compresses the gaps in the braid weave.
It takes more twist to cause loops to form in braid than it does nylon............thats for sure, but when you have a twist problem in braid its effect is just as bad as twisted mono.

As for "fireline"........... marvellous stuff ..........use heaps of it 2 -17 lb.
But excessive twist is its enemy.
Basically
its made with its core fibres spiraled together ( a long twist ) & then coated & thermofused.
The thermo fused coating is holding it all together & providing an outer protective coating, the fibres are a lot stronger than the thermofused bonding
too much twist ( one direction or the other) breaks the bond between the fibres and the coating. ( ie the fibres start to de-laminate )
FYI
the direction of the spiral twist in fireline is designed to suit spinning reels.
I use Alvey sidecast reels for some of my rock & beach fishing, they generate twist every cast & retrieve, and require a swivel between the terminal tackle & the reel to cope with the twist. The twist they generate is the opposite direction to a spinning reel........................ after a while the fibres in the fireline completely de-laminated.
Nothing wrong with the product........................... wrong application to use it in.............lesson learnt.
I now use braid & de-twist when necessary.
The extra casting distance & 'feel" for the bite achieved with the braid is worth the trouble for me.

The bottom line is :- if you have a twist problem & think fireline will solve your problem.............think again
fix your twist problem.
I reiterate................ fireline is a great product................... but everything has its limitations.
DenisB

Denis, IF the problem was line twist, you'd of course be right. The purpose of my post was to point out that rather than line twist, the problem may very well be the reel itself. And if it is the reel, Fireline would generate fewer problems than the extrememly limp Power Pro.

George
Agree with the IF
one thing is for sure, the twist , IF it is twist didn't get there by itself . It came from one end of the line or the other.
ie what the lure / bait is doing Or what the reel is doing.( and the multitude of actual causes that could be contributing to a malfunction at the reel end.)...........
bit hard to decipher what the original post was trying to describe, really
tangles in guides, but then Tolan had the impression that the problem was occurring somewhere between the line leaving the spool & getting to the guides, so I figure its not loose line on the spool ( from its numerous causes ) as that usually ends up with a tangled mess that fairly obviously & noisily came from the spool, with often long loops in the tangled mess.
Sure you can & do get small tangles coming from loose loops on the reel , in the heat of battle, but they are the lucky ones............................. " Murphy " usually grabs a handfull of wraps pretty smartly and chokes a big mess in the guides ................ so you know you have a problem with your line handling on the reel.
If only life was so easy that there is only one cause for any one problem.
Maybe Tolan will come back on & let us know how he went.
Or if he is still in trouble, a bit more info on the reel he is using and how the line is packing on the spool, so we might be able to narrow down the likely problem area & give him some more guidance.

I've even had a top end reel straight out of the box pack line on the spool horrendously because it was factory assembled with a spacer missing.................... must have been a 'monday' reel, or someone had a really big time the night before.
DenisB