I built a 6'3" SCIII ML recently that I am having trouble with line twisting. The guides are SIC NGC sizes 25,16,12,10,8 with a #6 micro and #6 tip. I am using a good quality 4lb. mono and change it frequently and have had no problems with this line before. I put the line on well and drag it behind the boat prior to fishing to remove any twists.

The biggest problem I am having is after a retrieve and there is slack in the line the line wraps itself around the tip. I have to unwrap it from the tip every cast. The other is after just a few casts with fresh line the line becomes twisted.

This is my first experience with the micro guide and wonder if it is the problem. I have the parts to start 2 more rods and really do not want the same results. Does anyone see anything wrong here?

The next rod to build is a 7" SCIII ML, I am planning on using SIC NGC in sizes 20,16,12,10,8,7, 2 micro 6's, plus #6 tip. Too many? Potential problems?

If someone could email me good guide placements for the 7' that have worked well for them I'd appreciate it. The spool will be centered about 9-10" from the butt.

Thanks for any and all help!!!

Hi Scott -

For starters...a #6 is not really a micro guide. I use sixes on about a dozen personal rods with no problems and I have 2 personal spinning rods with 3mm guides. In a nutshell - #6 guides are not the problem.

Please don't be offended by these next questions - we need this info to troubleshoot the problem.

Did you load the spool or was it wound on by a shop? Is it fresh line or have you stored it for a while? I'd throw a different reel/line on and see what that does. I usually put my line on spinning reels by laying the spool flat on the floor and I wind on twenty turns or so and see if the line is twisting. If you are getting a lot of twist just flip the spool over. Usually label side up works best. The line should be coming off of the bulk spool in the same direction that it's going on your reel spool.

For guide placement use the NGC (New Guide Concept) as outlined in the library section on this website. There is really no need for so many guide sizes. 90% of my walleye/bass rods have been Fuji high frame alconites in 25, 16, 8, 4 or 5 #6 fly guides and a #6 tip.

The coffee just kicked in - is this mono, co-poly or flouro? If you take that same reel & line and put it on a 6' factory rod does it work okay? I can't see how it could.

Chuck



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2008 10:07AM by Chuck Mills.

When I put line on I start with 10-15 turns and see if it starts to curl and flip the spool as many times needed to keep it straight. It is definitely something with this rod. It may be a combination of things but the only thing different is that I used the #6 fly guide and #6 NGC tip. I have built many rods but always used regular or NGC single foot guides from butt to tip. I keep reading about using smaller guides so I tried it. It just seems that this rod is prone to have the line wrap around the top 10" or so which I have not had a problem with before.

As above don't take these things personally, just a few more things to look at to help eliminate the rod as the culprit.

A couple more trouble shooting steps. Is the line roller on your spinning reel actually turning? Once in a while it can get jammed with debris or over tightening the screw that goes through the center. Have you been using your drag more than normal? Also, what lures are you using on this rod? It sounds like the kind of twist that comes with fishing in-line spinners for a couple of days. Have you been fishing with your lure or bait tumbling in current? These are a few things that can cause twist problems to varying degrees.

Is it possible to swap out for another reel that you have fished recently that seems to be performing well?

Maybe I'm thick headed, but I just can't visualize anything about a rod that could cause twist in your line. In my experience, twist is usually the result of something that is happening on one end or the other of the line. I'm not saying that it is impossible for the rod to be the culprit, just that I can't understand how a rod could twist the line in a normal fishing situation.


Joe

Scott;
When we are referring to Micro guides we are basically talking about guides that are 3mm down to 1.2mm
You may have used guides with shorter frames. But the #6mm guides have been a standard for many years.

Other problems could be the reels if you are using something different or the type of lure itself. If you are getting line twist after just a few cast? My guess would be that the lure is spinning around instead of tracking true and causing the problem

Sounds to me like Steve's question about the lure may be on the money. Is it happening with just one type of lure, or all of them?

Sounds like exactly what can happen with a worm.

Scott,

If you use braid +fluorocarbon leader you don't have twist problem.I build many spinning rod 9'-16' using micro guides model "M",and fishing with FIRELINE 4lb. smoke+fluorocarbon leader i never have problem.
In the same time maybe your reel is not the best reel,or the line is not soft enough.

Jean

Thanks for the replies!

The reel I have on it is a brand new Quantum Catalyst PTi 10 with 4lb. green Stren. For the most part I have been using 1/8 oz. jigs and small cranks. So lures causing the twist should not be the problem. The drag thing isn't an issue either. It really isn't the twisting of the line itself that is the problem, it is the constant wrapping of the line around the tip that I haven't seen to this extent before. As for braided lines except for muskies, no braids for me.

I am stumped and thought maybe one of you guys would have experienced this and would have an easy answer to it...

Maybe this can help...
[www.bassfan.com]

That's a fine reel and like all other spinning reels, it will add one twist to the line per revolution of the rotor. Over that length this is generally not enough to create the problem you're speaking of.

Make sure you're putting the line on correctly so that you're not starting with extreme line twist.

Beyond that, I'm not aware of any guide or tiptop problems that by themselves would cause them. Wish I could be of more help.

.............

What is the little "thing a ma jig" that goes between the braid and the fluorocarbon called when slack line jigging? It starts with an S but I call it a "fishing line twist eliminator"!

Scott, have you taken that reel and line off that rod and tried it on another rod?

Bill..

I call it a "Sensitivity Eliminator"... that starts with an "S"...

(might not be true - but it sure is in my head)

Alex I am glad the bass fishing I do does not require me to tie braid to fluoro! The Ss I own stay in the tackle box! Rich Forhan's book is titled Power Hand Bass Fishing and if I ever to write one it will be titled Bass Fishing With Hands of Stone. No one in their right mind will ever call one of my Froggin Rods or KO Punch Rods anything remotely related to Sensitive!

Gon Fishn

Yeah Bill... but you also aren't using 4lb mono on a spinny like Scott said he was!

You're pulling a toad out of a weed pile... 20lb fish until you pull the 15 lbs of grass off him! LOL

The rod should not be the cause of line twist. Also, as mentioned before, a micro-guide is considered under 4mm ring diameter. Size 6's are common to many spinning rods, and many JDM rods go down to 5's and even 4's.

Fishing jigs and mini cranks shouldn't twist your line either. I agree with you on that one. However, the nature of the animal that is a spinning reel is to twist the line. So your twists likely come fom the reel itself.
1: Pull down the bail and check the roller and it's bearing. Clean, reassemble and actually run some line over it at light tension to see if it actually spins. Lube the bearing also.
2: Loading the line: I don't lay the spool on the floor. Have someone put a pencil throught the spool and hold it for you, pencil hotizontal, with tension on the line. Spool up with the line going straight into the butt guide and to the reel, from the top of the spool. Also hold the line ahead of the reel and wind it on. Line isn't spooled on the factory with any twist on it, so flipping spools over when flat only puts the twist in another direction.
3: Don't put too much tension on the line when loading. You don't have to pack it on as tight as braid.

I'd say maybe try one of the limper mono lines, or give braided line a shot. It absorbs twist and doesn't jump around like mono does. The Catalyst PT10 is a nice reel, but has quite a small spool and smaller capacity. Even over the course of a single trip this can contribute greatly to line memory. Highly coiled up mono line twists more badly that limp line.

Also, on your rods, you may find that a dropping one of your cone of flight guides and going with more light 6's out to the tip will work wonders on controlling the line flow both on retrieve and cast, and knock down some of the twist generated. On your 6'3" rod, IMHO the 25 is a little large. If you definitely need the 25, have a look at going 25, 26, 10, 8L in the Y frames, then 6's right out to the tip. Using a 20, try 20, 12, 8L, then 6's right out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2008 07:41PM by Ted Morgan.