Does anyone know who is carrying the new Lamar CP? I assumed it was available, and have been telling people to buy it for a couple of months now, and I just went to order it and couldn't find it.

The Lamar CP will most likely make its entrance on or about Memorial Day.

Karen Hapka
Bingham Enterprises

Billy; I think it's slated to be available at the end of this month.

Hi Billy,
Were blending 120 gallons of the stuff on Monday of next week. Bottling will begin late next week, so buy the time it reaches the dealers, it will probably be around the end of the month as Mrs. Hapka stated. I know it's been a long wait for you guys, and many of you are very anxious....trust me, I am as well. It took over 5 years to devolop this formula, and I hope all of you guys are as pleased with it as I am.

I'll be sure to keep everyone updated via my website, and this board as the release date approaches.

Best Regards,

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing

Oh, I'm glad I didn't miss anything. I'm looking foward to this product, having tested it with Andy, and several other "concotions" Andy came up with, I'm anxious to use it on a few rods, as opposed to test sticks.

How does this CP work with black thread? I've heard that other CPs will sometimes leave a white residue and I've got a decorative wrap that is in process that will have some black in it that I want to avoid having white blotches all over.

First, we were part of the testing Team and we had some left over, plus we picked up a couple samples in High Point. We used in on five of our most recent rods.

You will be amazed at how much better this product is, compared to any other one the market. We have tried it on four different brands oif thread and over a dozen colors and sizes of thread, including NCP, metallic, uncoated silk, and - in answer to Burton's question - black.

No problems at all, and better in most cases.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

What are the finishes that can or cannot be applied over this new CP?

To my knowledge it is compatible with any finish. I have tested it with ThreadMaster....of course, FlexCoat, and an older version of DuraGloss. Obviously I hope that you will use ThreadMaster as your finish of choice, but it is compatible with other finishes. I am not going to test them all, because I just don't have the time.
Burton, to answer your question, Jim Upton has been doing testing fir me as well, and his "nemesis" is CP over black thread, and the white haze you speak of. About 4 months ago when I first sent him a sample of this resin, he emailed me back and said there was no white haze or flakes at all.
This is a very "robust" resin that is much tougher, flexable and water resistant than anything we've seen in the past. Unlike many of the acrylic color preservers that will turn back to liquid if they get wet, this will not. I have had a sample swatch on an arctic white aluminum test panel for 6 months on my rood, and it is still water clear, flexavle and has not degraded in terms of film characteristics at all. The color retention is very good, IMO comparable to the old 811. But the thing I am most excited about is the bubble release properties. You can violently shake the bottle and whip it to a froth.....apply it to the threads, and 95% of the bubbles will pop on their own. Those that don't you can blow on them like you were whistling, and they pop instantly. The other neat thing is that we have modified the rheology such that it penetrates the thread very well, yet is not a real watery thin resin that runs and sags all over the place. It self levels beautifully, and is not real runny. There is no dilution required. In fact if you dilute it, you will not get optimum results.

Like I said before, I spent 5 years researching various chemistries, and how they react when applied to a textile such as thread. It's been a very interesting thing to learn about. I can tell you with certainty that many times when you get thread discoloration with CP, it's not the fault of the CP....sometimes it's the properties of the thread (i.e. thread diameter, or material), or the dye itself. Billy V, Jim U. and I have discussed this a lot.

Anyway, it will be ready before the end of the month for sure, and I really hope everyone likes it.


Best Regards,

Andy

"I can tell you with certainty that many times when you get thread discoloration with CP, it's not the fault of the CP....sometimes it's the properties of the thread (i.e. thread diameter, or material), or the dye itself. "

I am not a chemist, adn I have no way of proving this is true - but I stand by the above quote 100%. On the threads I tested this CP on, the darker colors of Madiera did get darker by a shade or 2. This also happened with 811, and Brilliance. The lighter colors, hld true though, so I know it wasn't a function of the CP, rather a function of the thread.

Rather than try and figure it out, I've spent several hours in my dungeon, tring to figure out how to cope with this. I took $8, purchased a MAdeira color chart, and coated the threads with CP. In a moment of pure genius, I discovered that I could know exactly what color the threads were going to be AFTER teh CP was applied. I was so proud of myself for figuring that one out, as it really is pure genius. lol. All jokes aside - that's the best way to pick colors and never have an issue with colors changing once you are done.

Billy,
Without spending another 5 years on research, my personal opinion is that some of it it has to do with how light refracts off the surface of a dry matte finish thread, as opposed to a wet glossy finish thread. For example, ever notice how a paint job on a car looks deeper and richer just after it has been waxed (as opposed when it's dry and has been out in the sun for a while)? The color hasn't changed but because of the surface treatment the light effects it differently. I have also noticed that when you view certain threads treated with any CP, they look different under artifical light as opposed to natural sunlight. You also have to remember that you're NEVER going to match the color on the spool. When you look a thread on the spool you're seeing red thread layered on itself about 20,000 times. The red will be much more brilliant because of this. Rather we should be trying to match the color of the dry thread when it's wrapped over the blank on which it will be used, which is a much more realistic goal to achieve. If you wan the thread to be the color on the spool, do an over wrap and then treat it with CP, you'll get it!
Madiera is a different animal as well, because it's diameter is smaller than Gudebrod thread,and it's a different material than nylon. It tends to be harder to keep the blank from showing through underneath. Although I have to say I am very pleased with the results we've achieved with Madiera. I just sent Jim Upton a swatch of Red Madiera 1/2 of which was treated with the old 811 and half of which was treated with our new CP. In terms of color retention, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, but under natural sunlight the 811 gave more of a varigated look, and mine appeared to be more of a solid red thread. I have examined this phenomena under a microscope, and can't explain it....it has to do with the characteristics of the film produced by the resin, which is dependent upon a jillion different things.

I can tell you that we used Gudebrod 811 (old formula) as our benchmark for color retention. I think were just about on par with 811. I can say that in terms of working properties (ease of application, bubble release, consistency of viscosity etc....) we have far surpassed the old 811. It was kind of a finicky resin to work with, that required dilution with a solvent etc...

As I stated about a month or so ago, it's taken a long time, but we have nailed down a specific set of properties in a resin that make it work as a color preserver. There are MILLIONS of various resins out there ( and hybrid co-polymers thereof) but only a select few will work as a CP....it's a very delicate balance of specific properties.


By the way the new CP will be called ChromaSeal


Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2008 07:30PM by Andy Dear.

I have tried the samples ( which are almost gone) and w/o a doubt, it will be the one I use from now on. The color retention is superb IMO,especially on lighter shades and black STAYS black. I've only limited use of it, but enough to know Andy's on to something here. Since I like to use black mixed in with brighter colors fairly often, I would buy it even if that was all it did well(blacks) but fortunately it does much more. If you like TM finishes, your'e gonna love the cp. Worth the wait.

Andy, Thanks for taking the time to respond to this thread. I`m sure time is limited. Hope the baby is doing fine. If the reason the CP is not out yet is because you are spending time with him, well then you are excused.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

He's got the baby bottling the stuff as we type!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I got a sample bottle in High Point this past Feb. I used it for the first time on some Gude. Garnet A, and it soaked all the way through with no streaks or residue. The thread looks like it just came off the spool with just a touch of sheen. I'll definately be switching. Been using the old 811, and I like this much better.

Bill in WV

One other thing, it goes on without any problem with bubbles.... Good stuff!

Regards......Doug@
TCRds