Am building a 4 wt fly rod on a Sage Z-Axis 4 pc. blank. Was planning to use the Fuji Ti frame, SiC inserts, Concept single foot guides (TSLG's). But how does the weight of the Fuji guides compare to, for instance, Hopkins and Holloway single foot wire guides of comparable ring diameter? Are the REC Recoil guides be significantly lighter? I don't have a scale sensitive enough to compare them? Want to preserve the frequency response of the rod as much as possible. Thanks.

The REC guides are the lightest, but not by much. I think you would gain from having the Fuji SiC guides. Even though they are a little heavier, I don' t think it's enough to damper the frequency response and that rod. They also have a little bit lower profile which will help preserve frequency. And, of course, you get that insert. I love the Fuji concept guide. If you do use them, start with the smallest size (5.0) on that rod. You won't be disappointed.

AK Custom Fly Rods

Lets Wet Some Lines !!

I'm a huge believer and user of the Fuji Ti framed guides on my fly rods. However, a 4 wt. would probably have me looking at the other guides you mentioned. I've used the Recoils on a few and they are very light. I would think the H&H guides would also be lighter and very nice. Either of those will probably give you the best performance out of the lighter rod.
Have Fun,
Todd

I do agree with Todd. The 4wt is in a gray area for me. A 5 wt, go with the Fuji. A 3 wt, go with the RECoil. But, a four weight you might have to test it and see how it feels. I built this same rod with the Fuji guides and the customer loves it. But, you will be fishing this rod. So, Test It!!

AK Custom Fly Rods

Lets Wet Some Lines !!

i like dustins idea of checking both

but, if you're just gonna get the guides and go, i'd go with teh fujis
I've got ceramics on my 4 wt and love it.

If you are definitely going to use the Ti/SIC Fugi's on a 4wt I would keep them as small as possible.I would use a 5mm ring if a 4wt line and leader knot will fit through it,or 5.5mm max.Any larger and you will definitely notice the difference the weight makes.

I've put size 6 Ti/SIC Fugi Concept guides on 5wt and 6wt rods,and put REC Recoils on the same rods.There is no question in my mind which is the nicer feeling setup.The Recoils are considerably lighter in weight than the Fugi's and IMHO make the rod feel considerably lighter and crisper.Even though the fly line glides through the ceramics smoother and quieter than the wire guides,the rod still feels heavier in the hand and slower to recover with ceramics on it,and this is with arguably the lightest ceramics available.When comparing the weight of Recoils to say TiCh frame/zirconium ring guides,the difference in weight is like night and day.

I might try a 5wt with 5mm(or 5.5mm if the 5mm are too small) Ti/SIC Fugi's one of these days.I'm not sure if a typical 5wt line and nail knot combo will clear through these guides well enough or not,but if so I'm sure the finished rod would feel considerably nicer than the same setup with 6mm guides.That said,most of my 5wt rods and under will probably have Recoils from now on(although I also like using Snake Brand snakes and Pac Bay TiGold or TiCH plated snake guides on shorter,light weight rods meant for short range casting).

On 6wt rods and up,I think the differences in weight between the guide types becomes a little less noticable and the extra benefits of high end ceramic guides,like less guide wear and longer fly line life becomes more apperent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2008 12:04AM by Tony Dowson.

Look at the American Tackle Titans. They make a 5mm guide that is lighter than the Fuji's, and from what I've heard the ring locks are even lighter (and cheaper). I'm currently in the process of puting the Titan's on an 8'4" that I intend to use with a 4 wt. line. Don't see why you'd hesitate using titanium frame ceramics on even some smaller rods. For Line to Leader connection on rods I use with 5mm guides, I always use Dave Whitlock's super glue/needle splice. After a few years of using this type of connection, I have yet to have one fail!

Torin.

I recently put Titans on a Lamiglass 4wt travel rod for a good friend that's been fly fishing since before I was born. He comented on how light it was but he was skeptical about the guides; thought I may have ruined a perfectly good rod. He just came back from a fishing trip and was all "Oh, my God! This rod is Great!", "Best rod I've ever had!", "It casts Beautifully!". I'm personally not good enough with a fly rod to tell the difference but he certainly is.

I'm not putting down the Am. Tac. Titan guides. But, I doubt that they're lighter than the Fuji's. Less expensive, yes. Better quality, no.

Wayne,
I have to come down on the side of REC s/f recoils AND the recoil tip-top. Using the ceramics will rob the blank of life - especially that blank.
Herb

I personally stick with the Fuji Ti tip top even with Recoil guides just because the Recoil tips look so chincy. I honestly don't trust them. Plus the tip is where I want everything to really flow and it's the place that takes the most pressure. So, I go with the ceramic, which may weigh a tad bit more, for the security and performance.

Thanks so much for the advice, opinions etc.! I ordered a set of REC Recoil guides for the rod and think that I'll compare them on the rod (casting performance) to the Fuji's which I already have on hand. I'll let you know what I think.

Wayne

Thanks so much for the advice, opinions etc.! I ordered a set of REC Recoil guides for the rod and think that I'll compare them on the rod (casting performance) to the Fuji's which I already have on hand. I'll let you know what I think.

Wayne

Wayne,
The recoil tip-tops are not pretty - but they are oh so light. Winston used to put them on all their BIIX rods - my 10wt still has one. They had too many complaints that perspective buyers did not like the way they looked. Failure rate is very low. I have them on all my saltwater rods and have caught hundreds of fish on them - tarpon, stripers, jacks. If they can be used on med - heavy saltwater rods you will not have a prob with your Z Axis. Order one and try it - you will never look back. With that rod you should probably order the small ring.
To give you an example of the difference in feel - I sent my 9wt Winston BIIX back to Winston to correct a grip prob and they changed the tip top from the Recoil to a regular fly tip (not ceramic) with out telling me. When I got the rod back I thought they had switched rods on me until I noticted the new tip-top weeks later.

Try it.
Herb

For my 4 wt. 9' rod I ordered 4 ea #1, 3 ea #2, 1 ea #3, 1 ea #4 and a REC #12 stripper plus the small REC tip top. Thanks for your advice and experience. Is the REC tip top ceramic?

No, it's wire like the rest of the Recoils. You may not need so many different sized guides on such a light rod. Single ceramic stripper, maybe the #3 and #4, then #2's or #1's all the way out to the tip.

Wayne,
You may want to consider a ceramic for the large stripper. That will not increase the weight in a critical area and will give you a slightly "nicer" feel when stripping line. I only use the REC s/f as running guides. I have built some rods with all REC recoils, strippers and running. But lately I have been going bact to the ceramics for strippers ONLY. BTW,G Loomis uses all recoils on their GLX CrossCurrents. Steve Rajeff swears by them. They havn't taken the plunge on the tip-top however.
Another thing is that a recoils may give rise to a "whine" (singing) when you strip - but that will go away with a wet line.
Herb