Hey folks.

Despite the downsides to using Rayon, can it work as a rod wrapping thread? The colour range is awesome, coming exactly to a couple of matches I need to make that just aren't happening with Gudebrod nylon and silk. The Gudebrod just isn't close, and supply for new spools of a different shade is iffy. My silk threads don't seem to like tropical sunlight and saltwater very much, despite good coverage of epoxy, and colour preservative. Am I likely to run into the same problems with Madeira Rayon? The colour is very close to forest green, in fact metallic 9358 green is spot on, but customer is adamant he doesn't want metallic.

Second question concerns thread colour to match a Daiwa Exist spinning reel. I am pretty sure it's a sort of metallic shade of grey, but can't get a fix on what would be closest. Again, will probably struggle with the Gudebrod people here. Wraps will be on a Slate Loomis IMX blank, and I guess I'll have to use CP to try and keep the thread from going too dark. Any suggestions? Closest I can think of is gunmetal with no CP, or medium grey with CP.

In the meantime, I will put a test stick with rayon green and grey over matte grey blank to see what happens.Appreciate any help and advice.

Cheers,
Ted..

not sure about Rayon but i know the Madeira Polyneon is alright to use. Have you checked out the color offerings on that

So far haven't seen Polyneon up here mate. May just necessitate a visit to Spotlight: how very metro/other side of the fence!

Hi Ted,

I have not tried their Rayon but from what I hear it does not work well for rod building. Have you looked at Madeira's web site [www.madeira.de] ? They have an Australia button that may have some info on their thread. You should look at their Polyneon 40 thread, that is what most rod builders use. I would refer to you to check out the sponsers here as some of them carry a few colors of Madeira thread but I think the shipping to Australia would be a killer. If you are a commerical rod builder I would check Madeira to buy direct from them. The savings you get may cover the extra cost of shipping to you. If you do buy direct from them be sure to check min shipping fees. I don't remember what it is but you pay the same shipping for 1 spool as whatever their min. is.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Thanks Tom and Hank.

Hank, I am a hobby builder, so ordering direct and in bulk isn't quite on the cards. However, I do remember seeing Madeira in a couple of stores while on the road a while back. Will check them out and see if they are the Polyneons. Spotlight may be able to order the Polyneons for me. Love the colours: I want to match these colours with lasting, vibrantly coloured thread. With Gudebrod cutting back it's definitely time to make inroads into making sure I have good amounts of alternatives. Can't believe what happened with the silks: as soon as any lifting or cracking of the epoxy occurred (rods seeing some pretty hard work, not a lot of great maintenance) water intrusion and weathering quickly turned it brittle and badly faded.

Thanks again,
Ted..

I found a store in a town that we visit quite often and it has Mettler polysheen(polyester) in size 40 and I have been using alot of that and it work very well too, I am guessing it is very similar to Madiera. I tried rayon on one rod and will never used the junk again. Not very strong, frays easily, and even CP didn't seal it very well for some strange reason. I wouldn't touch the stuff, only have so much tolerance for frustration.

Madeira Polyneon #40 Embroidery thread is what you want. However you should also try looking for, Fish Hawk rod wrapping thread, to see if they have the colors you want. Their link is on the left. Pac Bay also has a wrapping thread you should look at to see if they have the color you are looking for.

Ted,
I use Madeira Polynoen #40 thread all the time. You should use CP though, two or three coats or else you might have finish issues. Also some CPs tend to turn the thread a shade or two darker so you might be a ware of that. Get one of their sample cards that has all the colors and put a couple coats of CP on them and you will see what colors turn really dark and the ones that don't.

Madeira is quite statisfactory for SW use, provided it's well-sealed with CP. We use two coats of Gudebrod 811 (the current product) thinned with 30% denatured alcohol. Does just fine. Does not darken the colours or cause them to go opaque.

However, a better solution will be Andy Dear's (Threadmaster) CP when it comes to market.

Another thread that seems quite good for the purpose is Fish Hawk nylon, as well as their silks. No strength problems at all. Very nice range of colours. You might want to contact them directly to see if they will ship to you - Robbie is truly a nice guy.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Just wanted to add toTerrys post, that Acid rod on the left has the Madeira thread sample cards.
Steve

Ted, I've experimented with rayon threads, including Madeira, and while some of them work better than others (Madeira being better than Sulky, with is better than Gutterman, etc...) and initially look great, I've not had much luck with longevity. From what I've tried, the silks actually tend to retain color better than the rayons when it comes to the sun.

I don't know if you have it over there, but I also use Robison Anton and Coats and Clark threads. Very good threads, though with CP/finish they run darker than the spool color than a comparable Gudebrod color, so you have to play with the shades a bit. Check some sewing shops or give me a yell and I'll mail you some thread.

Ted,
Mick (G'day Mick) and I did some tests in the Aussies sun.
Keep right away from rayon, it did some funny things. Mick might still have the results.
I might have a perfec match to the exist here in maderia, I will cross reference it to the Diawa cattledog.

Myles

Ahhh. Awesome....cheers Myles. Did the Rayon go funny even with CP? Tell the truth, CP for me is a royal pain. Haven't ever had the real need to hold spool colour exactly: people have always liked the no CP translucence, or gone for metallics. Would be great if I could get a close result without having to use CP, otherwise it's elegant simple black dress for the IMX. Two spools of rayon to be contributed to some lucky woman's thread box, along with the silk. Bugger. Gonna be running around like a headless chook chasing down all the available Gudebrod.

The guide wrap on the fly rod has to be green though. Ferrule wrap (on area with removed finish) I may be able to get away with something complimentary, as it's right in front of the handle, and can look like an extension of the wraps surrounding the inscription.

Hi Myles,

Where have you been?? Your email is hidden, email me so we can cach up. Email me at Hank@OnTheRocksFishing.com

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Myles, LTNS, my friend! Give me a holler on email huh?

Ted, I wrapped 3 sticks of blanks with several types of thread. Each stick was finished with no CP, flex coat CP, and Glass Coat CP, along with no finish, permagloss, flex coat high build, and low build, and LS Supreme high build and low build. I sent the blanks to Myles to put out in your down under sun. What was intended to be a CP test turned into a piggyback thread /finsh test.

Rayon failed miserably. There is a small sample of this test in the photo gallery under my name. I will take better pics with a new camera if you'd like as I still have those samples that Myles put out in your Ozzie UV sun. We intended to put out a full report on this test but there was a lot of animosity received on my end about product endorsement, favoritism, poor test plans, etc, so I let the whole thing drop. I'm just a hobby builder who can't afford to argue with large companies.

Thanks for the help guys. Silks and rayon are out!!! Looking for polyneon 40: so far all I have been able to find are the Madeira metallics.

Ted,
Try looking in your local hobby shops, or sewing shops. I get great service when I walk into a sewing shop, as they don't see men in there very often. I don't know what's available on your side of the big pond, but I find quite an assortment of Mettler and Madeira polyester thread in these places. You might even try looking at Woolworths or Coles Myer.

Someone turned me on to thread available at quilting or sewing supply houses. I believe it is the Robison Anton mentioned in another post. HUGE number of colors to choose from. Works very well and if you want a true titanium thread to match guide frames, etc., there is no other.