All I have to say is I drove from PA in ice and sleet and only lost 1/2 hour of travel time just to get to the show. I would think some of the rod blank manufacturers should consider taking on some of the proposed risk and play a larger role in help sponsoring the event. I will tell you now I will not buy or recommend a blank I cant touch or feel first and the Icrbe does just that. I literally go through everyones entire inventory and bend the heck out of them. Up here in the "north" I have never heard of a rodbuilding event until the expo was mentioned in rodmaker and there are no retail establishments to visit so I only get one chance at seeing the new stuff and this is it. Great minds find a way to do things they want and I hope I can go in 2009 cos Tom is a great mind. I would also pay more...much more

I've never put on any sort of successful large scale consumer or trade show of any kind. Tom has done it for five years running. So I'm going to assume that he knows at least more than I do about such matters and not offer any advice.

I will only say that I hope the show goes again in 2009 because it's the best thing I've been to related to custom rod building. I'd hate to see all of us have to go back to the days of only having small regional gatherings and seminars or events where you pay $75 to get in and-or have to join something in order to attend. The Expo has been a breath of fresh air and I'll attend every year from now on, if it's able to continue.

Kevin,

I appreciate the thought, but note your own statement "In my opinion...." That's the trouble, I can't bank on opinions, only on what we know to be facts based on consumer and trade events of all types held around the country each year for many, many years. Hold a rod building event in competition with good fishing weather and you're going to lose and lose badly. It's those two winter months, January and February, when most fishing type shows are held and for very good reasons. And... weather is only one concern. Any such event held in the other seasons of the year is going to be up against higher fuel prices, kids soccer games, vacations, other activities, etc. This is exactly why most show promoters don't do outdoor type shows in any other season except the winter.

......

Jason,

Your point should be well taken, but I'm afraid it won't be. This is still a very backwards industry in many regards - I doubt that more than a half dozen of the players are what we'd consider to be good 21st century business models. We have enough component supply vendors - there is no need duplicating the same product among 20 different vendors. Anything you want you can already buy at the Expo. We have enough "stuff." What I'd like to see is more manufacturers realizing how this event benefits them. And yet, many have this crazy idea that since they don't sell direct to the public that they can't make any money at the event. Try as you might, you'll never explain to them that every time they demo a product for a potential customer, and that customer then buys it from one of their dealers, they've just made a sale. They can't, or won't, understand that reasoning.

I had a blank manufacturer tell me that they saw no need to come to the event this year because last year their dealers didn't sell many, if any, of their blanks. I explained that this was because they weren't there to create that demand for their products by showing them to the builders (their dealers don't have time to do this - they're too busy selling). I told them that if they'd come and display, their dealers would suddenly begin selling their blanks. They came, and their dealers did, in fact, almost magically begin selling their blanks. They're a believer now. But most still aren't - they don't understand the relationship between themselves and their dealers in pairing at such events and why it's important for them not only in terms of sales, but in terms of building that brand image that carries you throughout the year. No where else can they see this many rod builders in one place at one time. It's a tremendous opportunity that far too many manufacturers have let slip through their fingers. But this is the nature of this industry I'm afraid.

I've had many folks tell me to up the booth fees, some suggest I go to $1000 per booth. Yes, the show is worth many times that to many that already display, but this is the custom rod industry we're talking about. If you think you can charge exhibitors $1000 for booths, well... maybe in the woodworking or other craft industries but not the rod building industry. We're still in 1965 here.

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Tom, not sure where the data came from on finding out about the expo on the internet- (75 people?) I personally directed a number of people to both this site and the dedicated site for the show, talk about the show is done on many other forums, and the word gets spread.

If not for the internet I would not have known about the show/ the magazine/ or this site.

Most fishing forums also have separate rod building forums - and when the show gets close the rod builders start talking- I personally had a half dozen builders from my area that were able to finally put "faces to names" -meaning each other- yes we chat a lot on forums, but this show brought us together for the first time. I also had another half dozen or so non -building fishermen show up at the show due to word being spread on the internet. None of these non-builders subscribe to the magazine or visit this site, and doubt they were targeted by flyers- the internet brought them to the show.

I assume your stats were taken from cards filled out at the admission gate ? Might want to take those responses with a grain of salt. Just my thoughts- I know I rarely put much thought into filling out such "questionnaires".


Again just my .02 cents.

Mark

Mark,

Few from the forums actually attend. We had registration forms out in the Atrium for the grand door prize and one of the lines asked folks where they learned about the Expo. Only about 75 listed the internet as their introduction to the event.

If we assume that the registration cards were off by a certain percentage, we'd also have to assume that they were off by the same percentage on all the mediums reported. Thus, the overall percentages would still remain the same. The magazine and the direct mail cards are the main reason so many know about the Expo and why so many attend.

I find the same thing with regards to advertising - sponsors here report very, very good traffic from their website links. Then they take out an advertisement in RodMaker and see the difference - their traffic suddenly jumps threefold over their link here. When Cabelas was trying to obtain my mailing list, they wanted the RodMaker list - said they could care less about any internet forum list.

All the internet message boards combined don't have the number of serious rod builders involved that RodMaker does in just one issue. And with some 50,000 postcards going out to the Cabelas TackleCraft list (among others) we know we're targeting a specific market and we've seen the results since we've been doing this.

Check the attendance figures for rod building events that are only, or mainly, pushed on the internet. They're not good. You can possibly get as many as 150 guys if you really blanket the internet, more often 100, and sometimes not even that many. But that's about it. Consider where companies like Cabela's, Bass Pro, Orvis, LL Bean and yes, even Mud Hole, put the bulk of their advertising dollars - direct mail catalogs and advertisements. They're pretty sharp and know where each advertising dollar is going to do them the most good.

......................

Another interesting thing, only because I like to track the numbers, is that the official event website normally gets about 20 or 25 hits per day. When we do a mailing for the Expo, or mail a new issue of the magazine with an ad for the Expo in it, about 10 days to 2 weeks later the website hits will jump to around 400 to 500 per day, for about a week or so. Then it dies back down. Another mailing or another magazine and the website hits jump right back up.

The internet facilitates business, but it doesn't create it. At least not to any great degree. Direct mail is still the #1 source for getting out the word on products, services or events. That may change in the future, but I kind of doubt it'll happen anytime soon. When or if it does, you'll stop getting those half dozen Cabela's catalogs each year.

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I went up to Ft Washington PA for what was supposed to be a giant rod building show. A joke. A flop is all it was. Then the same people put on one up in Seattle and was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. I didn't go but heard it flopped and they stopped doing it after one year. Even with all the blank makers and rod buidlers in the Pac west it couldn't be pulled off. So there is something unusual about rod building events and why most of them don't work??

Shortly after my first successful event in Charlotte, two of the more successful specialty fishing show promoters, Barry Serviente and Chuck Fruminsky, decided that this rod building show thing must be easy (Barry loaned me the space for that first one). So they staged one in Ft. Washington, PA. It was “one and done.” Next to nobody showed.

The next year they staged a rod building show in Seattle, WA. As you mention, surely that’s a location where you can’t go wrong, right? All those rod builders up there and all those manufacturers... surely that one was a guaranteed success. Right? Again, it was “one and done.” And this, for two of the fishing industry’s best known and successful specialty show promoters.

The custom rod building market contains some very unusual demographics and if you don’t understand them you won’t be able to do what we’ve done with the Expo. Anybody can have a rod building event and draw 100 guys - that’s not hard to do and in fact, is almost automatic if you do anything even half right. But to have the kind of attendance the Expo has had each year, which you must have if you’re going to keep this many exhibitors profitable and happy, requires a very thorough understanding of the specific demographics and habits of the custom rod building craft. I think most rod building events either fail or are limited to crowds of 100 people or so at best because the people organizing them really do not understand the demographics involved with custom rod building.

But again, what I'm talking about here is related to those particular demographics and this particular industry, not the admission fees of an event. Admission fees have little to nothing to do with my risk, unless I raise them at which point my risk does increase a bit.


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Tom- Dang-it! The one year that I couldn't attend and now it may be over? Would the cost/risk parameters be different if you held it maybe every 2 or 3 years instead of annually? I realize that a risk is a risk but if the Expo were held every 3 years, I think you could certainly count on a lot of pent-up desire that would attract lots of attendees.

We get pleny of attendees already - that's not the problem.

...............

Tom: I generally do not offer my two cents on this site but I am a very frequent visitor. I certainly can understand your dilemma. I am fortunate enough to be the director of convention services for a worldwide training organization and I certainly understand the risk that you take. Most folks do not realize that you commit to a hotel room block by contract, which guarantees the sales of (+, -) % of your contracted room block along with convention center rental (by contract), concessions and F&B minimums (if applicable). Add to this your up front costs for advertising et al and your exposure becomes quite extensive.

Here's two examples of events gone bad: In 2001, we had our yearly convention scheduled for the first week of December 2001, 3 months after 9/11. We cancelled our convention, which was to be held in San Diego and ate $110K because the hotel could not sell our vacated hotel and meeting space + F&B. Example 2: We held a convention at the Omni Shorhan in Washington DC the year of the sniper attacks.......our attendance dropped 25% from 1000 to 750. This cost us $60,000 in unused hotel room nights alone and $15,000 in F&B guarantees. Luckily in both instances, our attendees were franchise owners and their support staff, so our advertising costs were nil as advertising was word of mouth and internet based.

I feel your pain, Tom. Like you, we book sometimes years in advance of an event to lock in pricing and every year we sweat out the economy, disasters and to a lesser degree weather (our events run 7 days so the incentive to show after a missed flight is greater). Thank you for everthing that you do and I truly believe that everyone appreciates all of your hard work and risk exposure. You need to do what's best for Tom Kirkman. The other business owners and attendees should do the same.

KEn, I would appreciate as much advice as you're willing to part with on Sunday regarding setting up gatherings & the like. I did not realize you did that, I would have tried handing off coordinating NERB events to you a while back, lol!!! All jokes aside, I would love to speak with you off line next week some time to hear some feedback on how things go on Sunday.

Bill,

Anything that I can do to help, just ask. If the time allows on Sunday, let's chat, if not you know how to get in touch with me. After 63 years of running fairly successful international training events, there might be a thing or two that we picked up along the way that you might interest you.

I'll drop you an e-mail with my tel.

Ken,

Now you're somebody who understands risk and when you couple that risk to a rod building event that must draw folks from all over North America, well...

To clarify, however, I don't book anything at the Radission Hotel that costs me anything. I only negotiate a good room rate for the folks based on expected room night sales.

My risk is in renting the Show facility (which I have to do months prior to a single exhibitor signing on) and begin paying for advertising months and months prior to any money coming in. Once paid, that money is gone - nobody offers any sort of refund if something goes sour. It's one thing for a group or company to underwrite that risk, but something entirely different when a single individual has to do it, and to date, no other individual has been willing to do it. I always feel good about the show and know what I'm doing, so I'm usually pretty confident that things will turn out well. But after 5 really exceptional years I'm at the point where I'm not sure I'm willing to continue to roll the dice.

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Tom,

FishHawk Threads will be willing to help sponser a custom rod exhibit at the 2009 ICRBE Expo if such an event were made available to custom rod builders. We believe the custom rod builder is the heart beat of our industry and we received tremendous value in participating in the 2008 ICRBE. It is important to us that the 09' event takes place. Is such an event possible?

Many Thanks,

Robbie

It's always possible. There are many cities vying for the event and many companies interested in attending. Something this successful isn't a hard sell, particularly to so many retail vendors who understand that they missed the boat (several times) and now want to climb on board.

But I have more meetings to attend and more things to think over before I make my final decision. I will let you know, thanks.

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Hi Folks,

Been busy and just found this thread. If I may please let me offer my thoughts and they are just that thoughts.

Many good points have been posted already.

If anyone would know the risks being taken it is Tom as he has successfully done what no one else in custom rods has undertaken or done before.

I was a RodCrafter of many years and attended the National Seminar every year with side trips around the US for Reginal Seminars. We would pay $100 to maybe $150 fee a weekend to attend those seminars, p[lus all the other expenses. After a few years you learned enough to become a pretty good builder. So why continue to go? It was for social reasons, a chance to see friends once a year. Every year we got older and so did the average age of the members. The internet generation wants everything for free. They will not pay that kind of money to attend a seminar.

I trqveled across country and attended the last RodCrafter Seminar held at Lamiglas. We might have had 20 attendees. My dream of meeting lots of West Coast buidlers did not happen. Now they have FREE seminars on the West Coast and I am told 100+++ people show up. Is there a msg there? Yes, can you read this? FREE!!!

Yes the attendees at the ICRBE have a great opportunity. They come home with knowledge and great buys. However the major vendors have a better opportunity, the opportunity to generate $$$ for their distributors and therefor themselves.
It is these major vendors who generate the most income that should be taking the most risk. The highest Income generating companies should form a coalition, share the expenses, pay someone with the experience, in this case Tom Kirkmaan, to run the SHOW and the risk would be spread out. These companies already see the benefits. I bet many rod builders now use their products based upon seeing the products at the Show.

Many fishing tournaments that offer a million $$$ for a tagged bluefish don't have that kind of money. They buy an insurance policy for next to nothing compared to a million $$$. A business coalition could cover this insurance easily.

Finally, these major rod/blank /component companies have seen what can be done by the Show. The internet has spawned a new generation of rod builders so it behooves these companies to join forces and keep this show alive. They could also afford to run a simular show on the left coast.

AsI said just my thoughts.