I am building on a Rainshadow drop shot rod. It has an extra fast action...Should I go with a total of 7 guides or even 8? I plan on static test and using New Concept guide placement...I just want to be sure I plan on for the very soft tip. Any thoughts are appreciated, as I mostly build fly rods. This is only the 3rd spinning rod I have attempted...
Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,
I assume that this is a spinning rod?

With many very fast - light tiped rods; I find it necessary to place the first two or three guides from the tip at a spacing of about 3 /12 inches apart. i.e. 3 1/2, 7, 11 inches from the tip.

By this time, you are likely past the extreme quick tip and can began to space out the guides.
I just follow the taper of the blank - placing guides to get the line to follow the bend of the rod.

You don't mention the length of the rod.
If it is a 6 1/2 foot rod - with a very fast tip - you will likely need 7 guides. If it is a 7 foot rod, with a very fast tip you will likely need 8.

Just use the number of guides necessary to get the line to follow the taper of the blank.

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If this were a bait casting rod - I would suggest going with a spiral wrap to allow the use of fewer guides, as well as to get better line travel for the fast light tip.

Take care
Roger

First I would go to RainShadow/Forecast on the sponsors list on the left an go to their guide spacing. then go to the library section and checkout concept guide spacing. I believe I would use 8 guides
Good Wraps Bob

This is a 6 foot 10 inch Spinning rod...
Batson site has 7 guides with the first starting at 4.5 inches, 9.5, 15, 21, 28, 35.5, 44 in...I have made a lot of fly rods that are "fast" action and others with soft tips and I have never gone over 4 inches from the tip.
I have used new concept once before on a genral purpose 7ft spinning rod and I liked the results...and I will static test tomorrow...
I am just wondering if anyone has built this or similar rods and found that an "extra guide" is needed as I also want to keep it light...
Thanks for the response,
Jeff

Exactly what model blank is it?

A deflection test well show you where your guides should be placed and if you need to add a extra one. You have to remember no two rods of the same serries and modle well act the same.
Good Wraps Bob

I built on a similiar blank from Looms, the DS820. It's also 6'10" and ex. fast. What type of drop shotting are you planning on? If you are planning on long casts or pitching, its better to go with the first three guides closer and the rest spaced normally. Because I rarely make more than a 50ft. pitch with a lighter drop shot, I opted to do something more unorthodox. I used the REC guides to reduce the weight as much as possible, and also used the conventional, closer spacing on the first four guides. After the fourth guide, I broke from tradition. The largest and lowest guide is something like a 15 or 20 (I forgot which). I then worked my way down the sizes for the next two guides, ending in like an 8 (the fourth guide is a 7). It works very well, and the rod is noticeably less affected by guide placement than the factory rod, which almost has whip action to it.

It looks like the color of thread and placement of spine may be taking a back seat on this board when the subject of task specific bass rods comes up. There is some really good advice posted in the above.

There are several differing opinions on the street about drop shot blanks and set ups and they all have their specific applications. If your priority is vertical lure presententation the action of the tip section and guide placement is critical. When bite detection and tip stiffness enter the equation the guide set up is very important to permit the rod to function as desired. In most cases the use of more - smaller light weight guides is a huge advantage to the overall sensitivity of the finished rod.. Be sure you match the guide ring size and height to the specific reel to be used. Sernko and Wacky Worm blanks fall into the same category and there is a large mount of information on the subject that custom builders can easily use to great advantage. This technique is rooted in a "jigging - vertical shake" lure presentation and is not really dependent on long extremely casts. It should also be noted that the term "drop shot" may have more to do with lure rigging than the blank. This is one place where the use of the REC guides really have an advantage from a performance as well as durability standpoint.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2008 01:28PM by Bill Stevens.

I have built a dropshot rod on a Rainshadow ISB 822.5 blank... I emailed Kerry Batson on a set up for this rod.. His reply was 9" rear grip...2.5"fore grip...17mm seat..... guides 6 6 7 8 10 16 30 ( I change out the 30 to a 25) spacing from to tip 4.5 9.5 15 21 28 36 45.... I think everything worked out well for that blank really a good feel... Harry

Just a suggestion, but we rarely leave more than 3" (or less than that, either) on any of our rods between the tip and the next guide up. For one thing, we've pretty well proved that it protects the tip itself, particularly, on "soft tip" rods.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Not to hijack this thread, but dropshotting is the one area where I have been less than thrilled with the micro guides performance. When casting the momentum of the lure puts tension on the line, it straightens out and flies through the guides beautifully, but when you are just dropping a light weight you have no line speed and little tension. The loops in the line are less happy to go through the small guides, I find myself snapping the tip up and down to get the line to feed out quickly.

Mike - what line and what # test?

Stren Microfuse and Fireline Crystal 10lb / 4lb dia. I can’t say that I like these lines very much, but since they discontinued Fusion I haven’t found any line I like on spinning reels. I have one reel with my last spool of Fusion on it and it will be a sad day when I have to change it. If I knew I was always going to just drop the rig and never cast I might be tempted to put Power Pro on it, but I find Power Pro to be so limp that on a spinning rod wind knots are way too much of a problem.

Mike;
I have not noticed the problem you are describing. Here are a couple options that might (or might not) help but are what I use so far with out problems.
I've been using Spider wire Stealth on mine, even with 2mm guides, might be the difference.
Also been doing some experimenting with the New Suffix Braid, I have not used it on a dropshot yet. But in other applications it seems cast and pitch further indicating that the line may just perform better. So I’m thinking it might be a viable option for drop shotting.

How light of a weight are you using? I don't use anything lighter then 1/8 oz and that may be why I've not had the problems either

The following are from my personal specs.

The first features Tich plated Forecast F and Vs guides with Blue Zirconium ring also Woven Graphite size 17 spin seat.

The second spec features Double plated black frame Forecast VS3 with TIN gold plated Zirconium ring and size 16 textured pipe seat without for grip.

Rod Blank Model # ISB822.5
Butt cap: SBC20B
Front Cap:
Rear Grip: RG9A-345
Handle Arbor:
Reel Seat: GSTG17C-TC
Reel Seat Shim SHIM/17/SPIN
Foregrip: FG25A-250
Winding Check: BWC10
Hookeeper: TCHKS
Tip Top LTCPUT06R05.0
1st guide from tip top LTCFUG06
2nd guide from tip top LTCFUG06
3rd guide from tip top LTCFUG07
4th guide from tip top LTCFUG08
5th guide from tip top: LTCFUG10
6th guide from tip top: LTCVSUG16
7th guide from tip top: LTCVSUG30
8th guide from tip top:
9th guide from tip top:
10th guide from tip top:
11th guide from tip top:
12th guide from tip top:
13th guide from tip top:
14th guide from tip top:
15th guide from tip top:
16th guide from tip top:
Guide spacing Specs(inches from tip, center ring over mark) 4.5-9.5-15-21-28-36-45

Description:
Rod Blank Model # RX8+S822.5
Butt cap: ccbc20
Front Cap:
Rear Grip: rg9a-345
Handle Arbor:
Reel Seat: BPSTG16 & BPSTG16C-SN-TC (Pipe seat)
Reel Seat Shim shim16 spin
Foregrip:
Winding Check:
Hookeeper: ghks
Tip Top BPNT06f04.5
1st guide from tip top bvs3tng06
2nd guide from tip top bvs3tng06
3rd guide from tip top bvs3tng07
4th guide from tip top bvs3tng08
5th guide from tip top: bvs3tng10
6th guide from tip top: bvs3tng16
7th guide from tip top: bvs3tng25
8th guide from tip top:
9th guide from tip top:
10th guide from tip top:
11th guide from tip top:
12th guide from tip top:
13th guide from tip top:
14th guide from tip top:
15th guide from tip top:
16th guide from tip top:
Guide spacing Specs(inches from tip, center ring over mark) 4.5-9.5-15-21-28-36-45

Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com

BT-SB822.5 is the blank I am building. It is a gift to my brother for paying the rental fee for our trip to Dale Hollow...The rod will be for drop shot fishing, but he/I do agree we want some casting performance out of it as apposed to just dropping it off the side of the boat. I have turned my own 11.5 inch Tennesse grip so the handle is a little different than what has been suggested.
All your input, it gives me some "food for thought". I may ultimately end up to something very close to what Kerry has suggested. I just hate to see broken tips on any rod, but I also know most of them are caused by high sticking. I don't think it will be a problem, just want to be smart about it....
Thanks again to the overwhelming sharing of time and knowledge...That's what great about this board. You can be in the dark about something and the next day have a very good path laid before you with a lot of valuable insight I could not easily have come across on my own.
Jeff