I am very interrested in building durability in to rods, mostly freshwater spinning. I have found SF fly guides to be more durable for running guides, and stick to mid-modulus blanks.

It also seems the shorter the rods, the less breakage I see. I just can't believe the abuse some rods get!

Any tips or build styles anyone else uses to increase durability of rods?

Thanks,
Marc

If you haven't tried them already you might give the Recoil guides that REC puts out a try.

Here are my thoughts on duribility. I have seen fish hooked, fought and caught on rods that were not designed to chetch that type of fish. Where in the same instance I have seen under size fish break rod. So I guess it all come to the user if he breaks a rod. In most cases the rod breaks because the user does not know how to use it or how he stores it, throwing them in the bottom of a boat or in the back of a pick up truck. Also gun racks can help break a rod.
Good Wraps Bob

Swampland is marketing a lower modulus line of blanks that are designed just for this purpose. You might want to give them a call, especially if you have customers you know to be abusive to their equipment.

Most of their blanks are 33mil. modulus in the upper half for durability and 43mil. in the lower half for lightness. With most breakages occurring in the upper half of blanks this seems to go a good set up for what you are looking for

As far as guides are concerned? It’s like Bob said, if they breaking them pulling rods out of storage or throwing them around I don’t know for sure that one would be better then the other.

Because I cater to bass fishermen I will many times (on casting rods) use a double footed guide for my stripper then single foots from there on out. With a couple exceptions for guys who bring in rods that the same second or third guide is always damaged, then I will use double foots for these also, but even then some of those come back in damaged again.

On spinning rods I like the V-3 guides by Batson because they are more durable and stronger then the others, and really look sharp. They may a tad heavier, but worth it when looking at things from a long teem perspective when durability is the consideration. I use them on my personal rods for the first 3,I have yet to have one break or pop a ring on any rod I've built.
Them use micro guides after that.

To me durability means how long something lasts with repeated normal use. Your description makes me think it should say "abuse proof".lol. I Don't know how to build one of those.

I think you are on the right track. Lower modulus blanks are the first key. The recoil guides will take bending and abuse much better than guides with inserts. Truly durable blanks have more glass than graphite, or are 100% fiberglass, but are heavier.

In boat rods for salmon, I've tried to steer customers to more glass and composite blanks. They are more durable and generally better for the application anyway. Drift rods will be much more on the lighter sensitive end with less durability. General purpose spinning rods like you describe can be better served with composite or glass blanks that are more forgiving.

Good luck.

Terry

I use composite blanks for really large species, but find that common low to mid modulus graphite blanks are just fine for everything else. The most common that I use are G Loomis GL2 and St Croix SC3 blanks. IMO, they are a very good value and quite durable - both the blanks and the finishes ... in addition, they are both a neutral color that allows almost any color combination.

RECoil guides are durable, but I haven't been happy with them when using braided lines. For the price, it is hard to beat Fuji Alconite IMO and they do hold up well.

My experience has been that almost all custom rod clients are not abusive ... more like heavier users. In that respect, I haven't really had concerns that standard low to mid modulus blanks and typical ceramic guides are not enough.

I agree with what Jim is saying about “almost all custom rod clients are not abusive ... more like heavier users”.

I think as builders it behooves us to learn. What techniques and species of fish require using more durable lower modulus blanks, and to learn the fishing styles of the client we are building for.

Many species simply don’t need a sensitive rod to know they’re there. Not so with bass fishing. Some times the bite is so subtle that you barely know they are there with the most sensitive rods, and they will spit the bait without you even being aware of it. I have watched under water footage of such and the angler had no clue

Building bass rods, I build almost exclusively on top of the shelf blanks for almost all the techniques involved in bass fishing. I can tell you from experience that if I used a lower modulus blanks that weigh more for things like shaky head worm fishing or drop shotting or any number of finesse type fishing.
I could not get the people I build for to even use them. The 3 main things they are looking for are sensitivity, balance, and lightness. This just can not be achieved with lower modulus blanks. Yes you can balance a rod to create the effect of the rod seeming lighter, but it’s still a heavier rod

I also build most of my flipping pitching type rods this way. But for many people this would be a mistake based on their individual fishing styles. Learning what to expect from blanks and clients will go along way toward us building the best rod for them.

Even when building on a lower modulus blank for a client, taking the time to explain why and the benefits requires us to educate ourselves about blanks.

The choice of the correct blank has more to do with than the modulus of the fibers in the prepeg. The taper and wall thickness have a lot to say about the action, power and overall weight of any blank. Some proprietary task specific multi modulus blanks designed by and for bass fishermen are available with very low overall blank weights. Durability of a bass rod is of prime importance to both the builder and the user. I believe it is the dominant issue - if the rod is not durable is has no value - it must withstand the conditions of use. It simply may not be durable because the builder has selected the wrong blank for the task.

For bass fishing the best of both worlds can be found with a proper blank design for the chosen technique. Durability and sensitivity can be found with blanks that are specifically built for a particular technique. In other cases this may not be the case. One of the best specialty rods, a shaky head, can be built with a extra fast seven foot six inch steelhead blank when in the hands of a custom builder who knows which end and how much of the blanks to whack off. Bill Batson would probably croak if he found out Bob McKamy and I conspired to build light action tournament shaky heads on Rainshadow 9000s by cutting off 10 inches from the butt. Many top knotch cranking rods are built on slow rods with blends of graphite and glass. Bass blanks and the tecniques make it real tough to make any kind of blanket statement about which modulus is better. In building bass rods there may not be a "Man For All Seasons". I am presently working with a line of 23 blanks each of which has a specific use - and each and every one of them is completely different for a particular reason.

The good blanks are the ones that will aid the builder in constructing a light weight, sensitive rod that meets the requirements of presenting the lure in the desired manner, hooking the fish and removing the fish from his/her water environment in the manner desired by the fisherman. The later of these three requirements can run the range of letting the critter swim freely to the side of the boat for netting against the reel drag or "snatching the hawg" straight up out of a tree top in 20 feet of water and sailing it into the boat with one big jerk. It would behoove the builder to know exactly what his customer desires before selecting the blank.

Gon Fishn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2008 08:38AM by Bill Stevens.

I can't seem to find the thread but there was a previous duscussion along these lines and one of the builders suggested that the rod should be provided with a set of "instructions" for proper care and handeling of the rod... do's and don'ts kinda stuff. If you could educate the fisherman a little bit it would go a long way toward advancing the "durability" of the rod.

We have that resource ... it is called "Rod Usage and Safety Tips" and it is provided FREE of charge to RBI members. You even get a fully personalized version, with your company name and contact information on it.

Look to the sponsors list on the left or click HERE ... [rodbuildersintl.com]

The real "trick" IMO is still proper consultation with the client. I build plenty of high modulus rods ... G Loomis IMX, St Croix SCIV, Lamiglas XMG, etc. However, I also build more than my fair share of GL2, SC3 and IM700 blanks. IMO, this is where understanding the capability of a given blank is necessary to be a successful builder ... you have to know what it is most likely to undergo once it leaves your hands.

Failure to understand the clients abilities + needs AND the capabilities of the blank will result in you producing "boomerang rods" - they leave and make a big loop, returning to clock you in the back of the head at a high rate of speed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2008 11:55AM by Jim Gamble.