It's hardly an earth-shattering revelation (it's in the Simple Spiral article in Rodmaker) , and it shouldn't have taken me so long to discover it, but when I was recently monkeying around with a surf spiral of mine, I had a Eureka moment -- I realized that it was absolutely critical that the line has to pass in the dead center of the bumper guide, and that to achieve this, you usually need to get the guide ring as close to the blank as possible.

I learned this, of course, because the bumper guide on my surf spiral was NOT as close to the blank as it could/should have been, so the line, including my shock leader knots, was rubbing/bumping the inside of the bumper guide ring, ruining my casting distance (when I built the rod, I hadn't twisted/bent/mangled the guide frame enough). Oh well, another opportunity (one of thousands) for me to look like a moron, and another lesson learned that I probably wouldn't forget.

But this subject got me to thinking on the feasibility of using a different guide than the run-of-the-mill casting guides I use on my spirals. Specifically, I was thinking of a fly guide: the ring in a ceramic fly guide is already about as close to the blank as it can get, so you wouddn't have to bend the frame to get it to perform the way you want it to. Then I thought a fly guide might not be durable enough on a surf rod. Then I thought that maybe a titanium fly guide would work. Then I thought that I was making too much of the issue, and I should just bend a casting guide (I have problems).

What guides do y'all use for bumper guides? On any given rod, will you use a different kind of guide for the bumper than you're using for the rest of the guides? Do you have any tips for easing the transition from the stripping guide to the first 180 guide?

Your points were all made in the article and for the exact reasons you state. I typically use a casting guide reshaped or bent a little to get the ring right down on the blank, but you could use other type guides as well as long as they meet the criteria.

Keep in mind that the line really doesn't care what frame is holding the ring. If the guide meets the criteria and will hold up, use it.

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I usually use a BLAG type fly guide (I also use them for the running guides. Keep in mind that I don't do surf rods)

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

If your passing a big knot I think there are much better methods of spiral wrapping to use than the simple spiral version. Thats a pretty severe angle at the bumper guide for a large knot to get past. The knot has no chance of sneaking past the bumper guide at all without knocking it no matter how low the frame.

There is no angle on the Simple Spiral - no transition. It provides the straighest line path of any of the spiral wraps.

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Well then what to call it then "a hump"?

I don't know what you're referring to. The line is dead near straight, and certainly doesn't have to turn the corners that it does on other spiral wrap systems.

The letters from guys like Bill Falconer pretty much speak to the efficiency and nice casting attributes of the Simple Spiral in surf rod use.

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Good luck passing a knot past that red circled area.. Notice how low the frame is on the bumper guide. Same reason why when I run braid past these guides it sounds like a saw cutting when using a lure with any kind of load to it. There is some presure on the bumper guide from the angles the line is running on obviously from the 1st and 3rd guide pulling the the line in towards the blank.. This creates a hump the knot has to go over.


[www.rodbuilding.org]

It looks like you're running a single guide 90 degree transition spiral type wrap in that photo. On the Simple Spiral, the guides are not that far apart. I've never had any trouble getting surf rod shock leader knots across the bumper guide (the line has to go around the blank anyway) but can't speak to what you've got there in the photo. I've not tried one like that.

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1st and 3rd guides are 9 1/4" apart. What is missing that makes this not a simple spiral now?

That would seem to be correct. I wish I could advise, mine don't look like that. You've got line running almost across the blank in two spots, or so it looks. Perhaps I'm being fooled by the photo angle or something.

All I can tell you is that mine work great for surf rods. Obviously you need to use large enough guides to pass your knots and this was well covered in the volume 7 #1 issue. As we've gone over previously, you can reshape a size 16 (or whatever) to sit right down on the blank if need be. That's what I do on the heavier surf rods and shock leader knots have not been a problem. There are several other surf builders here that have reported the same thing.

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I have the simple spiral bumper type system on my latest surf rod. So far so good. It seems to be working well. I'll know more after I can fish it a for a full season. For now I'm very satisfied.

I've built about a dozen spiral wrapped surf rods in the past few years. All of those featured the O'Quinn type spiral and I can say without hesitation that they will definitely do the job in the surf. No problems at all and this is after several seasons of use by myself and some customers. Not a single complaint and they cast great and fight a fish with no problems.