Mo;
Here is the info you requested using a small reel and the 1.5mm Micro guides

Guide set up:
25mm
10mm
5mm
2mm
5-1.5mm
With 5mm tip

Blank:
St. Croix 4C69MLXF
6’-10”
Power Med-light
Action Ex-fast
1/8-1/2 recommended lure range.

Reel:
Cardinal 101

Line:
Seaguar 6lb Fluorocarbon

Weights:
1/32 oz and 1/16 oz crimp on lead weights.

Results:
1/32 oz: casts between 40’ - 43’7” consistently
!/16 oz: 53’ – 62’9”

The results seemed less then satisfactory. But since I don’t throw any thing that light I’m not sure what to expect. Especially with a rod of this action
I’m sure an ultra light rod set up to cast weights this small would cast better, but by how much I’m not sure.

Then line seemed a bit noisy going through the guides.


One other note;
I talked with another builder and he said that the line I chose was probably the worst choice for this set up. That he had stopped using it because of all the trouble he had trying to cast light stuff with it. But after spending $17.00 on a line I’ll most likely never use. I chose not to buy another brand to try.

If you have any questions, just ask and I will see if I can answer them.

Steve,

Have been following your posts here with interest.

Suggest you change the reel to a Stella 1000, replace the YSG 25 to 20 and switch your line to 4 lb braid and see what happens. For that particular blank, I will be interested to try the following guide choices:

T-YSG 20, 10, T-LSG 7, and 4 X 3.5 with tip Tip T-FST 4.5.

Will be pairing this set of guides with a CTS Elite Tournament 6'6", 4-8 lbs line. Let you know what happens but hoping that it would cast like what you say it would.

Anthony Lee

I guess this test has something to do with the casting distance and the micro guides? Could you tell me if the micro guides make a difference with a more powerful rod. Something rated to throw 1/2 oz or so like big crank baits. And more importantly could you tell us the increase in distances you have obseved in real numbers depending on what you were casting. 10' 20' 30' ? Thanks so much! And I also agree that fluorocarbon was a bad choice for that setup the braid or maybe some suffix elite would make for a better test.

-Henry

Thanks Steve,

I mentioned a couple times that I really DID NOT want to trouble you to do the test but apparently you did anyways....:) Huge thanks.

If you e-mail me your address, I'll mail you a spool of 4 lbs Fireline for you to test so you don't have to spend any more $$. The Fireline should cast a bit further if you care to do the test.

Hard to tell if the distance is reduced or not as there's no size 6 guides to compare with. Also, it's a heavier blank than suited for the casting lures. That said, the distances seem really good to me, especially the 1/32 under the conditions tested. That Fluro line is indeed about the worst you can use so it's a good 'worst case' scenario for UL.

BUT, there are two things I could tell with the micro and a sensitive blank:
1. I could hear the line like you did.
2. I could FEEL the line zipping through the guides.
Both of the above must take energy so I figure it was reducing casting distance but did not AB test.

I'm curious about the gradual reducation - 25, 10, 5, 2, 1.5. I would have normally just gone something like 25, 10, 1.5. Have you found the radical tapering to be detrimental to casting distance?

Again, HUGE thanks.

Mo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2008 02:59PM by Mo Yang.

That was my first thought - the blank isn't really designed to cast such light lures very well.

One thing I've found in using the NGC for so many years now - the sound of the line passing through the guides is not necessarily detrimental to anything. Some of the worst "sounding" set ups I've tried turned out to be the best casting set ups.

...........

Anthony:
This rod is actually complete with the exception of mounting the reel. I already have the Stella 1000 for it and will be mounting it this week, and will be using it with 6-15 lb braid or 8-10 Floro (I would not use a Cardinal reel of any size of permanent set up).
For the type of fishing I do 4lb line is more of a fantasy then reality. Not because of the size of the fish, but the obstacles we have to get them out of and through around here (docks, rocks, trees, miles of thick grass, shell beds, ECT.

The reason for the little reel and small weights was to answer a couple questions that Mo had specifically asked regarding casting really lightweight lures for trout.
With the size weights/ lures I will be using, casting 1/8-3/8 oz lures will not be a problem

I think you will like the set up you have chosen for the CTS blank

Henry:
Actually it had to do with casting minutest weights/micro guides/and distance

“As far as working with a more powerful rods”? ABSOLUTELY.
I have been using them for over a year on everything.

Had them on a flipping/pitching stick at the show that flips and pitches great but has not been put into action yet. I will not be recommending them on t his outfit yet. Until I have used them in the field for a while. Not because of casting, but to make sure they handle the abuse I will be putting them through with a rod this heavy. ( I’m one of those wicked bass fishermen Bill Stevens keeps warning builders about).

When I built it, I tested it using 50 Stealth braid and was pitching close to 70 ft.

While I was showing a couple builders how well it pitched at the Expo. Standing at the Batsons booth I pitched it and slammed the bathroom door back by the seminar room. A minute later another Builder I know who has been in construction for about 50 years walked up to me and said “That was ninety ft. I said excuse me he said: That was ninety ft, I just walked it of and you pitched that thing ninety ft.”
Now his measurement may have been a little off, but it gives you an idea of how well you can pitch with little guides and larger line, and in fact 3mm guides work better then 3.5mm guides
I had also switched to 50 lb Suffix because a friend said I should try it out, so it may also have contributed to the longer pitch.

“And more importantly could you tell us the increase in distances you have observed in real numbers depending on what you were casting. 10' 20' 30'?”

Yes and no some of the setups I have compared to other rods so I can provide some of that info, others I have not but can share some of what I noticed.

The first one I built was on a Batson’s RX8+ S822.5-- 6’-10” Casting rod
On the very first cast it out cast every other rod I’ve ever built except one 8ft. crank bait rod. It cleared my casting range went over the fence through the woods by some 40 or 50 ft.

On my pitching stick Batson RXC+865 7’-2” Casting rod.
None of my others even come close, average pitching on my other rods 40-50 ft. (maybe 60 ft. max) average on my rod with the 3mm guides If I remember correctly as 67 ft with a max pitch of an estimated 90 ft.

Sinko rods (No weight, worm and hook only)
No contest! I would say before when using 6mm guides average casts were somewhere between 80-90 ft.
The Sinko rod I had at the show RX8+S823 6’-10” average cast 145 plus.
To be realistic I never throw a Sinko that far while fishing, but you asked for the casting distance so that is what I shared. But if I was chasing schooling fish and needed the extra distance?- to quote my daughter; IT’S THE BOMB!

I can say that my spinning rods with the mini guides well outperform what I have with 6mm running guides also. Although I’ve not compared them side by side, the differences are enough to be noticeable with out doing any. But I have to play around with the setups some to get the best results.

Mo:
You might be right about the noise and feeling. This is the first rod I’ve built wit the 1.5mm guides, and was built as a proto type to try out to different Ideas I’ve been working on at the same time.
So I don’t have anything else to compare with, but on the rods I’ve built with 2mm and 2.5mm guides they are awesome cast great and are As Mr. Kirkman mentioned in another post; are quite.
I could be also that the little weights do not cause enough weight thrust to create enough velocity with this heavy of a blank to help straighten the line out reducing the coils so it runs quieter through the guides. But may not be affecting casting distance very much if at all?


“I'm curious about the gradual reeducation - 25, 10, 5, 2, 1.5. I would have normally just gone something like 25, 10, 1.5. Have you found the radical tapering to be detrimental to casting distance?”

I did this because on some of the other rods I’ve built, were I played around a lot with sizes and spacing figuring out what works and what doesn’t.

I found that using that one extra reducing guide at the choke point result in further casting distances. So I have just kind of incorporated into the rest of the rods I’ve done.

I think; (although I’ve not done any testing to prove if I’m correct)
That when choking down to the larger 6mm guides the extra size is not needed. But when choking down to guides this small. This is the point were the line turns at the angle to run down the blank creating a little added sideways friction on the choke guide. Which may be the reason for casting differences? Any way I’ve found the extra reduction guide gets me better results so I use it.

Steve, have you tried the micro guides with braid and some sort of leader setup? I would like to know how well they pass knots. This is the only thing keeping me from goin below size 6 running guides. Even on the very light spin rods, I have a minimum leader of 8 lb fluorocarbon, and often use 12 lb, 16 and 20 lb as the longer (approx 4 feet) stage on a two stage leader. So the knots (Slim Beauty) always go through the guides on the cast.

Ted;
I use braid on many of my rods. The only rod I use a leader on has 30 braid with 20 leader for throwing Zora spook type baits, Would use only braid but it gets hung in the hooks.
I use this on a rod with 6mm guides and over the years have popped the knot casting. So I keep my leader at 18 inches or less.
So my answer is no. I have no tried it.
Some thing you might want to try is; Buying a set from Custom Tackle to experiment with you only looking at about 5 dollars tape them up on a rod and see. If it doesn’t work? Use them on a rod that you don’t use leaders on.

Steve,

Are you using spin or casting reels for all your tests at the show? For casting reels, I have no problems with the smaller guides performing better every time.

Thanks,
Mo

Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions Steve.

Thanks Steve. Yeah, occasionally I do pop a knot and watch the lure sail exactly into the spot I wanted it to.......or clean over the horizon! However, while I absolutely LOVE to fish UL/L tackle, the beasties in the water here love little lures just as much. In fact, just two nights ago I was catching barramundi at a rock wall on a 2 inch plug. These fish necessitate the heavier bite leader, and the rough ground necessitates the longer section of lighter leader. Strikes drop with braid to a short bite leader, and braid on oyster covered rocks is instant disaster.

Will stick with the 6's as I get good results with my leader setups. And work on neatening my connections even more.

Mo;
Yes I have been using both. One of my best casting rods of all is a spinning rod Built on an RX7 blank I use for skipping up under docks

Ted;
Makes sense.
As Mr. Kirkman has said several times: "Use the smallest guides you can get buy with".
There are times when the Micro guides will not work. They just provide another option and some improvements in performance when they will.