Hey Guys, yep me again :D

i am building a Samurai S1000X 7' 1-2kg spinning rod matched to a Shimano Stradic FI 1000, ill be running 4lb braid and fluro

reel spool diameter = 39mm

so 39 x 27 puts the choker at 1053mm from reel spool. i plan to use AMTAK NIRLF size 5 or Fuji Sic 5/4 running guides, so after i have worked out the choker location that leaves a wopping approx 950mm to the tip of the rod. now my question is how would i go about working out how many running guides to order and should i graduate the spacing or have equal spacing right through to the tip.

also for this build would you recommend a size 20 stripper or 25?

for any aussie builders reading this, if any of you are located around brisbane QLD i would love the oportunity to come and pick your brains for a day or so as im only 16 im trying to learn as much as i can.


i plan to order the NGC back issue but just thought id ask here first.

Thank You for your help



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2008 12:48AM by Tom Slater.

hey tom

are you northside or southside of brisbane? me im north and just a beginner like yourself, but ive got a massive 4 years on ya! ive just built a rod for a mate useing the new fuji concept guide spacings and its great, has a very JDM look and feel about it and i take it your trying to build a finesse bream rod, like the high end ones we have over here. so in saying that i would use a 20 stripper, if you want email me and ill show ya the guide spacing chart that i have, i think its the new 2008 one

Hi Tom. I'm up in Townsville, but a friend off the board here is in Brissy. Myles Boon, BearClaw Custom Rods.

Now, for your running guides, weightwise and appearance wise, you'll probably be looking at high framed guides. AmTak Titans will match your fly guides. They are only a tad shorter than Fuji Y guides. For your stripper guide, 1/2 the spool diameter will be about right, so a size 20 will do fine. The position of the this guide is between 19 and23 inches from the reel spool face. Your last 5 from the tip will sit at the choker location. Using the X27 method to locate this point is fine, but after this I tend to go back to the table edge, using this set point, and place the guides from there. Line up the spool shaft and the edge of the last #5 guide.

You are looking for a cone of flight progression over that metre of line path. If the size 20's edge doesn't reach the table edge, either move it, or go with a 25. Within the 19-23 inch range, however, I'm pretty sure the 20 will find a position. From there it is your choice of guides to follow the table edge to that #5 choker. Try 20, 12, 8 in Y frame. A 5 fly isn't much more smaller than a 6, so that my work. I like to stagger the running guides so the spacing between them increases slightly as you move towards the reel. The 5's on the tip will be equal distances apart.

Hope this helps,

Ted..

Thanks Ted and Ben,

Ben, I am in western suburbs, Mt Ommaney to be exact.

Ted, so your saying a set up like this

20,12,8 in high frame then 5 fly onwards out to the tip?

when you say "Your last 5 from the tip will sit at the choker location" by that do you mean my last #5 guide before the tip as my choker location? wouldnt that go against the NGC setup method of x27 which would leave nearly a metre or blank towards the tip after my choker location?

sorry i got a bit confused reading your post please correct me if i have interpreted wrongly.

this rod will be used to throw small hardbody lures eg (2-5g) and i want it to be able to cast a mile using 4lb braid for searching flats and casting to spooky fish.

thanks all

No, I mean the last #5 guide going towards the butt, before the running guides. You may end up with 5 or 6 #5's equally spaced between tip and choker location. I have rolled up quite a few rods just like you're aiming for, and 20, 12, 8 (or if you can get a 7, try that) should be fine for the 1000 size Shimanos. The line path will dictate which guides to use and their spacing. Plus when you stress test and test cast you will be doing adjustments to give the best flow and stress distribution along the blank.

ahh ok sorry my mistake :P

thanks for you help mate much appreciated, now i have to finalise my guide decision so i can order them.

thank you again for your help and sorry for the misunderstanding i was a tad distracted.

cheers
Tom

No problem. It helps to order more guides than you think you'll need, so you can play around with spacing and sizes. I have a set of V single leg and Y framed single legs that I use for setup and testing. After all that is done I go through with the order for guides (usually only with the more expensive guides).

yeah ill need to order a few extras.

im doing a similar build a few weeks after this one or even at the same time if funds permit.

7' blank matched to a 08 shimano Twinpower 2000 but ill need to get ahold of the funds to buy the reel before i do the build

thanks for your help ted

Ok just did some more calculations.

after finding my choker point at 1053mm from spool that left me 910mm to the tip. i followed ted's advice and tried different calculations with different numbersof running guides.

910 / 5 guides gives me 182mm between guides is equally spaced. In my opinion this would be to far away so

910 / 6 guides gives me 151mm between. this is a little more respective and if tweaked a little using graduated spacings works out quite nice.

my question however, is on such a ligth fast action blank 151mm spacings towards the tip seems a bit much so would i be correct if i tweaked them to say

1st running guide from choker 200mm,180,160,140,120,100

obviously i would need to put some flex in the rod and see how the stress distribution is but does this seem ok to you guys.

Tom, do you have guides in hand? Or are you just working spacings for a start point?

151 mm is 6 inches, and tweaking to 200 mm is 8 inches. Way too much. For something that's gonna have a lot of curvature in the tip under load, 4 inches (100mm) will help follow the blank path. On such a light rod, you can increase the spacing slightly, because under load, the tip will flatten out and you'll be using the mid-section of the rod. So you can go to around 5 inches (125 mm). Quite simply, if your spacing seems too large, try yet another guide to bring the spacings down. 910/7 gives you 130 mm, which is very workable. I have guides spaced about that on a 6'6" rod that's a fair bit lighter than the 001X.

Again, the rod and the line path in stress testing will tell you where you want to be. Try and stick with equally spaced running guides to cut down on the messing about at the tip.

Tom,

Ted has given you some good advice. Remember that the line path will determine the guide sizes - try not to preselect guides, let the line path tell you which ones to use. Order a full set and then use the ones that are required. If you're going to be building many more rods you'll eventually use the others at some point.

You can use progressive spacing on the area between the choker and the tip if you like. What I'd do, is set up the rest of the guides and then try it both ways on the tip section - test casting and load one set up with equal distance spacing and one with subtle progressive spacing. Use the one that seems to suit you best and/or gives the best casting performance. On a very light rod you will have to compromise - fewer guides is better in terms of making the rod perform more efficiently, but more guides are needed to distribute stress on the light tip and mid area. So be prepared to compromise a bit.

..............

Good advice here.
Tom...remember we talked a week or so ago... i kept the choker guide location, but i had to distribute the guides unevenly for that UL rod, because otherwise it would've felt tip heavy and i never like to use mode than 7 guides plus tip on an 6'6" rod. I basically started with 10cmbetween the tip and first guide....11cm, 13cm....and so on.....till i filled in the space. The tip will always need the guides grouped closer together, but as you go further away from it i consider the guides should fall further appart from eachother. It gives the good angle in the line(when the blank is under load), and a better weight distribution. This is a personal opinion, but the choker guide with Tom's method is spot on. You may tweek it 2-4cm(further up or down) from that exact position so it fals in harmony with the rest of the guides.

Right on there Andrei. I've also done that with other rods too.
You can preselect guides to a certain extent if you have a lot of time, a table and a big sheet of paper. You also need guide height data, the likes of which are now furnished by most manufacturers, either in catalogs or online. The diagram works out to be basically a triangle between choker point and spool shaft tip.

Very tedious, 'cos it really gets you moving about and checking heights, locations and spacing on paper only, for any combination of guides. Then you have to do it all again based on your guides and the stress test and casting.

thanks guys for the help. i just didnt feel right using 9 or something guides on a 7 foot rod but i guess ill have to compromise and use more guides.

i am going to go ahead and order extra guides in varying sizes and do a lot of test castings etc etc until i feel comfortable.

sorry for the noob question :S

thanks guys

Another Question!

after talking to a fellow builder here in aus i have had second thoughts about my blank selection for the other build i intend to do along with this build.

I want a blank that will cast light to unweighted plastics a fair way but still have enough guts to catch small snapper ie up to 50cm without TO much trouble.

something around 100 dollars willing to go to about 150 that is approx 1-3kg (2-6lb) 7 foot with a fast action.

originally i was going to use the GUSA B70LXF but i have been told that it will be a bit heavy to still make small bream a good tussle on light line which is what ill mostly use it for. Only occasionally will i use this rod for small snapper.

i already have a 1-2kg that i am rebuilding aswell that i use for my hardbody lures which has a softer tip to prevent a lot of hook pulls.

i would like the blank to be nice and crisp in the tip section so i can impart those small delicate twitches without the tip bending out to much.

any opinions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2008 12:10AM by Tom Slater.

I think i may have found my blank!

GUSA Pioneer UR70-UL

any opinions for crispness etc etc?

Ahh, Tom, you're over on BreamMaster too. Cool. I am Shortlite on that forum. Feel free to get in touch.