Steve, it just occurred to me that you have done all rod builders a great favor by sharing all your micro guide experience. Many of us have been hounding you for more info after that first article in RM. I just want to say thanks. I appreciate it immensely. Your unselfish sharing is very cool!

My first Vibronics knock-off is ready to rock. I'll keep you informed.

Chuck

1.5 mm????? Whoa. can you even thread hair through it? Pretty soon, you're going to find a way to do a guide free rod....just like your graphite handle that's held to the blank by .....'nothing'....:)

Looking forward to your results. It may be that size 500 spool that I use is just flat out too small but I doubt that.

Thanks,
Mo

Mo;
The smallest reel I have in my shop is a Cardnal-101 I don't know how that compares to a 500. So my results may vary
What type and brand reels are you using? I don't do any ultra light fishing, but If I can put up a cheap one just to experiment with I might.

PS: guide free rods have been around for a few years already


Chuck;
Thank You for your comments!

Mo,
Interesting discussion. My question is: why are you using fluorocarbon if casting distance is most important? I've found that super-thin braided casts much farther, especially when using really teeny lures. Since the braided (e.g., PowerPro) is so limp you may not have the problem you describe.

Steve - THANKS. You've been very generous with your time. I'll measure the spool diameter tonight and post here.

Tom - used braided for the longest time - BUT 2 lb mono/fluoro is actually thinner than even 2 lb Fireline. Cast further. Also, mono/fluoro is far less visible than braided for spooky fish.

Thanks,
Mo

Mo,

I build many spinning rods using match SIC guides model"M"on fly blanks w4-w10 and i have no problem casting lures 1/16-1/32oz..This match guides don't reduce the casting distance.
DAIWA 500 is not the best reel for lite fishing because the spool is to deep and narrow.Better is DAIWA SS TOURNAMENT 700.
I fish just with braid (FIRELINE 4LB.,POWER PRO 5-8LB.,SPIDERWIRE STEALTH 6LB. and SPIDERWIRE ULTRACAST 10LB.)+fluorocarbon leader in fresh and salt water .I never have problem using this small match guides.

Steve, the Daiwa 500 has spool lip diameter of 1.27 inch. It's ridiculous to think that you even need to try to find one to do the test - you've already done PLENTY of tests for YOUR kind of condition and customers. If you want to test your 1000 size reel, that's plenty - especially if you use 6 lbs or 8 lbs mono/fluoro - you'll have some memory. I don't want to trouble you with finding a size 500 at all.

Jean - I hear you. The 500 is really for testing the extreme conditionfor line loop - I fished with it for years but by last year, am transitioning away to larger and wider spools. No question. I'd say though, there's something pleasurable about using a tiny sub 5 ounce size 500 metal reel to land a larger fish. I know a guy who actually used it for saltwater UL fishing - crazy.

While you are on reels, indeed, there's a cult following for the Daiwa SS Tournament 700. It's a GREAT spool design but for that kind of $$, I want instant reverse and lighter weight. GREAT reel. I will say that a Abu Garcia does make a size 301 reel that weighs the same, has instant reverse, and should cast as well - but without quite the same durability. For the ultimate UL reel, I'd say it has to be the Luvias and Exist size 1003 reels. Easily sub 6 oz with all the latest advancement including the furthest distance casting. Problem is that they are $$$.

Incidentally, I don't have problem with the small match guides either - I just want to know if they are indeed further casting with line coils going through them. Every kind of guides cast well, but I'm looking for optimum....:)

Mo

If you want another small ,lite reel with very good drag ,try ABU CARDINAL STAMINA DRAG 600U.This reel was $60 ,now maybe you can find with $25,but is not easy to find.
I was catching with this ultralite reel(fresh water reel) using FIRELINE 4LB.+14LB. fluorocarbon leader ,one 23 1/2lb.red fish and many flounders,speckled trout.
ABU CARDINAL STAMINA DRAG 600U is nice reel but never have the same quality like DAIWA SS TOURNAMENT 700.(or DAIWA SS TOURNAMENT 600).
Instant antirevers is not so important how long you fish with two hands keeping the hand on the handel.

Jean - yes, that's a nice reel but yes, not up to the SS700's quality.

Instant antireverse works for me during the few times when my finger slips. I probably hare more 'butter finger' than some but I like the instant antireverse - just feels better. Some skilled fisherman do not even use the drag apparantly - prefering to reverse crank the reel to let line out when the fish makes a run. I'm not quite that skilled....:)

Mo

Mo, backwinding is not that hard. Just as with other gear, it requires a "feel" for the limits of your tackle. Backwinding allows you to give line while keeping good pressure on a fish. Particularly of good use when your drag system either isn't up to scratch or has malfunctioned in some way. Or you are using really light line like 2 lb straight through. It's the feel through the direct connection that makes it interesting.

Yes, 2 lb test. I don't think I'm just sensitive/fast enough to respond to protect such light lines.

Mo

MO;
What do you fish for with such light lines?

I recall he's going for distance and finesse Steve. Mo, it's not about being fast, but sensitive yes. However, you feel the pressure through the gearing, and it's quite easy to judge and adjust. Just takes the guts to go for it at first and try it out. Just like setting your drag, you go through the same motions, but you are now trying to effect muscle memory. Long rods and smooth reels are a must.

I gotta say though, if distance and presentation were what I was after, I'd go with some really light braid (proper woven braid, not crappy Fireline) and a long light leader. Especially for lures. In England float fishing for carp, tench, etc. is pretty popular, and in pressured fisheries sometimes you do have to fish 2 lb straight through to the hook.

2 lbs - trout.

I've been using 4 lbs but am going for 2 now. Talked with enough 'pros' to know that 2 lb hook up more than 4 lbs. Significantly more in some situations.

If there is braid thinner than 2 lb mono, I'd use that - never found that yet. They all CLAIM to be thinner but I use actual visual thickness viewed through a 10X loupe.

Mo

I guess we're spoilt here in Australi, with all the braid companies putting out products for the light tackle (bream) lure fishermen. Platypus do a 2 lb braid, Fireline Crystal do 2 lb, FINS 4lb, Nitlon 4lb. Now I've fished 2 lb, and agree it's really thin, but some of these braids (FINS and Nitlon I have used) are spiderweb thin. Strong and thin, but crap abrasion resistance. Interesting you've viewed them under a loupe. I remember a fellow here on a site posted pics of lines under a microscope. I can e-mail you the link.

Ted,

I've compared Fireline Crystal 2 lb with 3 lb Tectan. Tectan is thinner and cast further if I remember correctly. I'll have to double check but I believe I'm correct. Crystal 2lb does break around 4 lb so it is stronger than rated. Visibility is a problem.

Mo

ok ive been reading here with some interest.

i am plannign on buildign 2 ultralight spinning combo's pretty soon using fuji sics or amtak nirlf.

would it be better to gradually go down to smaller gudie size

eg, 20,12,8,6,5,4,4,4 etc etc

ir just go straight to the small ones eg.

20,12,8,4,4,4,4,4

Hi Tom.
The jump from 8LJ to 4.0 fly is a bit extreme. Maybe throw a 6 fly guide in with the last setup, and watch line fly!!

Mo,
Fair enough. Very much aware of how much homework you've done on the subject. Good luck with the superlight gear. I'd love to see pics of your captures, and your light rods.

I just make the jump from 20 to 12 to 5 or 6s. So I'm a bit more radical. I just skip the 8 all together. Anyone else care to comment?

Mo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2008 07:03PM by Mo Yang.

Thanks Ted for for the advice.

ill be sure to post a detailed message when i get around to building them askign for advice from you guys