Steve,
I love your article about the Vibronics rod. I was looking to do an ultra light spinning rod in the future using your technique. I did have a question though. Is the tube/handle hollow after you put the end caps on? I know the top of the inside of the handle is glued to the blank, but what about the area below the blank between it and the ID of the graphite tube? I was thinking of using some expanding foam from a can that you find at the big box home improvement stores. It is called Great Stuff if I remember right. It is NOT the same foam Tom and Andy introduced in the Foam Core articles. This stuff is much weaker, however very stiff. It seems to me that if you filled the area between the blank and the graphite handle with this foam, it would make the handle even more sensitive (more rod in contact with the handle) without adding much weight. Have you considered this?

Harold;
Yes the handle is hollow between the front and back Arbor.
Any thing you add will make the rod heavier and therefore lessen the sensitivity of the Rod.
Especially on an ultra light rod, it might not be by much but on a rod that light it could add up 15-25% more weight

IMO adding the foam is the worse thing you could do. That material was created for its insulating factors both from air and vibrations, as sound proofing.
You are much better off having the hollow cavity.

Thanks Steve.

That is why I asked. Wasn't sure. I really do appreciate your input.

Harold,An explanation gets a little complicated but what happens to the amplitude of vibrations in a rod and therefore the sensitivity is mainly a function of the mechanical impedance of the materials which is a function of the materials mass density and elasticity.  While a rigid foam will have low mass density and reasonable elasticity and transmit vibrations relatively well there really is no point in adding it when a graphite tube is contacting the blank and your hand is contacting the graphite tube.  The path for the vibrations is direct from the blank through the graphite tube to your hand.  You will have almost no affect on the mechanical impedance of this path by adding the foam and as was pointed out you will be adding a little mass which will reduce the sensitivity.

Steve,
I know that it may seem a little counter intuitive but materials like rigid foam and cork for that matter that work well as sound proofing or thermal insulation can also transmit vibrations very well.

Steve had a new rod at the show this weekend that used a carbon fiber TN handle, but didn't use any foam or graphite bushings, or cork or... well, nothing.

Photos will be in the next RodMaker and everyone will smack their foreheads and wonder how 100 year of fishing rod construction have passed without anyone thinking of this. I sure did.

..............

What did he use to take up the space between the TN handle and the blank?!?!

AC
FishinFreaks
Rogers, MN

Nothing!
As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
If Mr. Kirkmans putting them in the mag I will refrain from sharing until it comes out.

Steve, you're killing me! All this piles of cork that I have prepped to do a large # of build - all obsolete now.

Kidding aside, THANKS for sharing your expertise. VERY VERY cool - and appreciated.

Mo

Thank You Mo,
But I don't think cork will ever be obsolete.
This just provides another option for those willing to step out of the box of " this is how its always been done".

Steve, I was looking forward to talking with you but I missed the show and now I feel out of the loop. I just glued a graphite TN tube on a blank last night and was going to put the front arbor (vertical grain balsa) in this morning. Looks like I should wait until the next issue? I'll go start wrapping the 3mm guides. It might take me until then anyway. ;)

Chuck

Steve,
After talking with you I did make it over to Tom's booth and I got a chance to take a look the this very rod that is being discussed. I was AMAZED!!!! I agree with Tom, in trying to figure out why no one has come up with this idea!!!!!! Definately something that needs to be seen. My wife looked at me and asked how come you didn't think of that? I could only say "I really don't know, just never came to mind". My hats off to you Steve and to all of those who continually perform outside the box and push the limits of the "normal"!!

Tom Kaufmann
GySgt USMC

Chuck;
I would continue on with what you are doing.
The set up Mr. Kirkman is referring to is a bit more complicated then that and will not work with what you have at the moment
When I first started doing the offset handle design I started by using a very hard wood known as Epée. One thing you want to make sure of is that the wood is sealed all the way around to prevent any moisture absorption which could cause swelling that would cause other problems.

What I did was to take the pieces I had cut to fit. Place them in a jar and fill it with varnish then let the wood soak for a week. Remove, allowing it them cure then go from there. I may require a little sanding to get back to original dimensions but will prevent any problems in the future.

Tomas;
Thank you for your comments!

Thanks Steve! I was not sure what you were using for arbors. Balsa is very strong against crushing when you run the grain vertically. A few drops of thin CA make it just about indestructible. It wicks all the way through and will glue your fingers to it if your not careful. I have the guides in place and I'll static test and wrap after lunch. I went with VS3 25, VS3 12, 5 fly choker, 3.5, and three 3mm on a ISB783.

Set up sounds good let me know your results.
I no longer use wood arbors, but that is were i started when I came up with this system



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 05:10PM by Steve Gardner.

Been building these for quite some time using cork arbors and forming them to the blank using rod bond and now that the new 10 min rod bond is out I use that and find it works very well. I use three arbors on most grips and two on shorter grips because as Emory points the vibration path is from the blank to the woven graphite tube and into the hand. So the arbors need to firmly as possible push the blank against the WG tube, Mass of the arbors and epoxy are not as big a factor here as getting the best possible connection between blank and wg grip. That means a smooth and even suface on blank and wg tube is important and good arbors to craddle and push against the blank, Rod Bond works well and it is easy to shape the cork arbors to a good fit to the blank. Good article Steve and perhaps more notice will be taken of this technique as it really works very well. I have not personally fished for Steelheads with a spinning rod with the blank offset yet but will soon have some in the hands of a few guys that have them on their bass and walley rods.
Joe Kassuba
His Rod Shop