I had a "discussion" with a gentleman about how he would never own a 2 piece rod. His reasoning is that a 2pc comes apart at some time of the day, after throwing hundreds of casts, ( he fish's bass tournaments). I've never heard of this happening unless the rod wasn't properly seated in the first place. I've thrown 2-3 oz. for the better part of a day surf casting a 2pc. rod and never had this happen. I know this 2pc, vs. 1pc has been posted before but, has anyone got an opinion on this particular phenomenon. I think I already know the answers.

[www.rodbuilding.org].

Most likely he's used cheap and poorly designed multi-piece rods which in turn have soured him on them. Tell him to perhaps give a try to a quality multi-piece rod and he might then change his mind.

I fish multi-piece fly rods and have done so for over 2 decades and never had one come apart during a day's fishing. Never.

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Personally, I prefer multi-piece - easier to transport, easier to build, easier to warranty, etc. I can only imagine that most blank manufacturers would like to sell more of them - less warranty expense, less overall production waste, lower shipping costs, etc.

Unfortunately, this old wive's tale is as likely to die as the spine issue. My one-piece sales are MANY dozens of times greater than my multi-piece sales. I can barely move a multi-piece at wholesale material costs. This is one of those "I wish it were so " issues.

I'll agree with Jim 100% here. There are so many up sides to 2 pc. rods, but the fishing public is stuck on the 1 pc. is better thing. If you can convince your customer to try a good 2 pc. rod, I doubt he will be disappointed. Like all custom builders, I can make anything I want, and all my rods are 2 pc. except my 5' UL (and that would be 2 pc too if I could find a blank!!).

Good luck on this one.

Marc

I will certainly agree that one piece rods are sometimes a pain to transport. But on the other hand the only real advantage of a multi-piece rod is that it is easier to transport but don't believe that there are no compromises associated with ferrules. Multi-piece rods do have some disadvantages. Apart from a little added weight the biggest single disadvantage is that any ferrule, even todays improved ferrules, results in a phenomena called stress concentration. Stress builds up as the rod is deflected just in front of the ferrule. This can and does result in a heavily loaded rods breaking a few inches in front of the ferrule.

I don't think the customer's comment was about breakage, just about the rod "coming apart during the day". A cheap rod will do this after a while, as Tom and Jim mentioned above. On the other hand, the "bass community" has many such taboos and multi-piece is one of them. In a lot of cases what you use determines what your buddies think you know about bass fishing - it's a matter of appearance amongst your peers, not anything well-thought-out or based on fact or such. The latest "thing" is the 7'4" stuff.

There is a general perception, round here, that a two-piece rod has a "stiff spot" at the ferrule that affects casting, fish-fighting capabilities, and causes hurricanes. Until, that is, that you put a well-built two-piece (or more) in their hands and they realize that in "real" terms it just ain't so. Even then, if it's a bass guy, sometimes he won't even touch it for fear of contamination.

Emory's right, at the technical level. That's one of the reasons golf shafts are never two piece - with that much stress on the shaft, the effect would be maximized. Yet, in fly rods, I'd sure like someone to explain why multi-piece outfits are far more the norm than not. Never mind two-piece - how 'bout premium prices for four or five-piece sticks, some of them truly delicate wands indeed? I'm not talking about the "lemgth" thing - I'm talking about the perception that such fly rods are truly "better".

We have a customer who went down to Maxico for a few days of fishing. His 7', 1pc never made it. He wasted several days waiting for it, but that's another story altogether. He bought something down there - one-piece, of course. The tube it was in was crushed, along with the rod, by the time he got it home (he paid extra in both directions for the "overlength" size).

So, his girlfriend is buying him a rod from us. We are taking a lead from the folks who come down here in Fall to chase albies on the fly. Trust me, they use 2, 3, and 4pc fly rods and many of them are high-dollar outfits and they NEVER check their rods. The trick is to get a rod that'll go in the overhead as a carry-on. Most of the airlines are pretty tolerant of this approach, even now. We are going to prototype a rod for him that'll catch what he wants to fish for, but will have at least two pieces. I bet we can convince him - actually, I bet our rod will convince him.

Like Jim's experience, our customers never think twice about insisting on a one-piece stick - until something happens like this.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Multi-piece rods are not prone to breakage any more than 1-piece rods are. In fact, I'd wager that more 1-piece rods are broken due to problems with transport and storage than are multi-piece rods due to "stress concentration."

Unless you overline a multi-piece rod with a line possessing a breakage strength that exceeds the design parameters of the blank, "stress concentration" will not be a problem. The same applies to 1-piece rods.

Golf shafts are not made in multi-piece design due to their being short enough as it is that transport is not a problem. It has nothing to do with breakage problems. There has been no call for multi-piece golf shafts. If the future sees such a demand, golf shafts can certainly be designed in multi-piece configuration that will do the job without undue breakage issues.

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Tom,
I agree that there are advantages in transporting rods with ferrules but there are also disadvantages to multi-piece rods. There is no free lunch. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but ferrules resulting in higher stresses in a rod due to stress concentration is not an opinion, that is a fact.

Russ,
I do not know for sure but I suspect that the multi-piece fly rods are more a function of tradition than performance and hark back to the days of wooden rods that were much more difficult and expensive to make without the ferrules and also because many of the bamboo fly rods had multiple tips with different actions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 10:59PM by Emory Harry.

I will give you guys a different perspective for multi piece rods. Since many years now good Fly rods are only available in multiple sections ( 3-6) and nothing will flex more durring a day of fishing than the fly rods. I lived most of my life in Europe and we used rods over 12 ft. most of the time, in multiple sections or the the Telescopic rods and never had any problems, we just got so used to the fact from Bass fishing to use a one piece rod, so will not trust the others, 90 % of the blanks I sale are multiple piece rods and I had not had any problems yet, neither my customers.
Best Regards Mark Crouse

fly rods are made in multiple pieces because its practical. alot of people would not buy your 9" $600 rod if it cant be stored somewhere safely because truth be told it cant be treated like a spin/casting rod. they are so much more delicate. i also believe that it could be tradition. bamboo are multi piece and i think fly fishing is largely a traditional sport, they have the same sort of reels they always did.

i prefer one piece rods for spin/casting rods tho, i think it is still a case of only recently multipiece rods have become good and the public have it in their mind that they still arent up to it like one pieces. it will take time and with travel becoming more affordable i think multipiece rods will get more popular. me, im just lazy and dont want to go to the effort of putting a rod together before i fish :)

Emory,

The idea that anybody fishing with a multi-piece is fishing with an accident waiting to happen is just not true. I hope that's not what you're trying to say. Good design reduces stress concentration to the point where it does not come into play during the normal fishing situations that the rod was designed for. We go back to the practical application at hand - if multi-piece rods were not up to the task they were designed for, they'd disappear from the market. I myself have designed and made blanks that are multi-piece models and if you simply load them to failure I can guarantee you that they will not break at the ferrule - they will break in the same location that similar 1-piece models will break, which is near the handle/butt.

On a good ferrule design, stress concentration ahead of the ferrule to the point of causing breakage is not problematic. On those models where it is (if it is), the designer needs to go back to school - he didn't learn enough or just didn't do his job very well. It's a simple matter to design around that sort of thing so that it does not happen to the extent where it, in and of itself, causes failure at that point. In the long and short of it, with a good rod and good ferrule design, breakage at the ferrule just isn't an issue. Anglers have no reason to fear multi-piece rods. I I think that telling anglers or rod builders think that all multi-piece rods are going to suffer undue or premature breakage at the ferrule/s does a great disservice to them.

Good multi-piece rods are not not prone to coming apart provided the manufacturer correctly fitted the ferrule to begin with and the angler understands how to assemble it properly.


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"Stress builds up as the rod is deflected just in front of the ferrule. This can and does result in a heavily loaded rods breaking a few inches in front of the ferrule."

I did actually have this happen on five rods of similar make and model. All Lamiglas graphite surf rods. 132-1Ms as I recall and each one broke within the first two days during casting no less. All about three inches forward of the female ferrule. Our surf fishing party nearly swore off two piece rods after that. Luckily we tried another brand the next year and did not have the same problem. I would chalk up those breakages on the Lamiglas surf rods to a design that either created too much stress concentration there or one that could not handle it. I know that later Lamiglas surf rods in the same series did not have this problem. They fixed whatever was wrong with their design. Now we all use two piece surf rods and do not fear them in the least. Bad design equals breakage, good design equals no breakage. I experienced this first hand.

Since then I have fished more two piece rods than single piece rods and have not had any breakage problems to report. If stress concentration occurs just forward of the ferrule, so what? Who cares? Unless it causes the rods to break as it did those Lamiglas models I could care less. There is always going to be stress somewhere on a fishing rod when it is flexed. I pay for and expect the maker to have done his homework and to have provided me with a rod that does not fail at the ferrule. If he cannot do that, then I will buy another brand. There are plenty of two piece rods out there that perform up to snuff and do not have ferrule breakage problems. It is a non issue for me and my guys at this point.

I have broken more single piece rods in rod lockers, ceiling fans and screen doors than I have broken two piece rods on fish. As I said, how many pieces the rod has is a non issue for me.

I have had a few two piece rods that would not stay tight and would come loose. I managed to refit those ferrules and most stay tight all day long now. I know beeswax is not recommended by some here, but I have found that it also helps a ferrule stay in place.

Guys, around here I wouldn't use fly rods as examples. Just reinforces the "wussiness" of multi-piece rods in the minds of hard core Bassers. It's the wussiness factor far more than having any idea that stress concentration exists. And as far as transportation goes that's why you buy an F150. I'd use the just kidding sign but I'm not.

I think anyone who either bass fishes or builds rods for bass fishermen will understand your point exactly. I certainly do.

And yet, often a bass fisherman only needs to see just what a fly rod can do in order to understand that there's no "wussiness" involved with fly rods. Last spring I was in the middle of a river catching smallmouth bass on every other cast with a "wussy" 5-weight fly rod while 3 bass fisherman retreated to the bank due to the high winds blowing their spinnerbaits and crankbaits so far off target that they just gave up in frustration. They spent the rest of the morning watching me catch bass, and lots of them. One of them is a board regular here and he has switched almost exclusively to the fly rod after seeing what a fly rod can do. And... he's catching more bass now than ever before.

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I love those days too. It's happened to me chasing Shoal Bass (our first cousin to Smallies). To add insult to injury it's always fun to show them the leader - knots in the terminal tackle ! & 1X tippet. Even if it doesn't convert them it's fun listening to them around the camp "social hour" explain why I just got lucky.

I think related to this thread is Sage's introduction of Bass specific and tournament acceptable rods (< 8'). I've "store wiggled" the LM & SM. I like them. Also interesting is Sage using a retro and bright blank and color scheme - nothing Orvis looking on these rods. They certainly look "non-wussy". The tipping point will be though when guys (& dolls) start winning tournaments by skipping big Dahlbergs up under cover. Then BPS will offer a private lablel and there will be videos on every isle in BPS showing the "pro's" new techniques for catching Big Hawgs.

Steve is right on about the "bite detection" thing. A rod that is balanced more towards the tip is more tiring to fish "tip up" but the fish can move it easier as the weight is on his end. Also a longer rod is easier for a fish to move because he now has a longer lever to use against you. He can and will exert more force on you. This is why saltwater stand up rods are so short. They take away the fish's ability to put more power against the fisherman. If longer rods were harder for the fish to move, then the stand up guys would be using longer rods instead of going to shorter and shorter ones.

The last multi piece rods I owned were as a kid. Personally, as long as my boat can hold an 8' rod w/ out it telescoping I am going to go 1 piece. That is not to say I wouldnt have a multi piece rod for a fly rod, or perhaps a pack rod if I am going to travel somewhere. But as mentioned above it just doesnt make any sense for someone who primarily fishes out of their boat (that can handle 7-8' rods) use a multipiece rod.

I wouldn't think folks use multi-piece rods just for the heck of it. I assume they use them because they need something that breaks down into a shorter length for travel or storage. I'm with you - if you can handle a long 1-piece rod, it makes more sense to go that way. They're less expensive and you save the time of putting them together, even though that's just seconds. Other than my longer rods that aren't easy to transport, I use 1-piece rods. But I have no qualms about using multi-piece models when they make things easier.

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I\\\'ve been doing this a lot of years and have run across about every rod blank and ferrule design out there. About a decade and a half ago JK Fisher introduced a 50lb offshore trolling rod for traveling anglers that broke down into four pieces. Talk about an accident waiting to happen. But wait, I was wrong, it worked and worked well. I fished with some guys that used them and the strain they would withstand and the fish they landed left me scratching my head. I still don\\\'t know why anybody would need a four piece IGFA rod though and I stil don\\\'t like plug type ferrules. But I will admit that that one worked and worked well without any problems that I saw.

I\\\'ve seen rods with ferrules that did indeed pop and break at various places near or right on the ferrule. But not lately. The older designs left something to be desired. I will say that the old Fenwick Feralite Ferrule was one of the early good ones and I don\\\'t recall ever once having any breakage problems with it. I\\\'ve built a ton of bottom rods on their early HMG graphite back bouncing blanks and those rods are put under tremendous loads and I\\\'ve never seen one fail at the ferrule. They may have, but I never saw it happen. All the Fenwick SU and Big SS surf rods had great ferrules and I\\\'ve built hundreds of rods on them. Not once has one ever come back due to a ferrule failure. Sure it can happen, but those ferrules were not problematic and that\\\'s been nearly twenty years ago that they were around. Many are still being fished and fished hard.

Bottom line, is that rods that break at the ferrule are crap. If you have this happen with more than one, throw it out and go get yourself a better multipiece rod. There are good ones out there and the ferrule won\\\'t be a problem for you. The fact is that a good rod manufacturer can build a multipiece rod where the ferrule won\\\'t be the weak link. If it is, then it\\\'s crap and you need to move to a better rod make. The idea that all multipiece rods are inherently flawed because they have a ferrule in them just waiting to break is malarky. What we call a ferrule on a fishing rod is the same type joint that is used in many other types of construction useage and they have proven to get the job done without problems.

Bottom line is that a guy who doesn\'t break one piece rods isn\'t going to be breaking two piece rods. And a guy that breaks his two piece rods will also break his one piece rods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2008 05:49PM by Mike Ballard.