I spent the afternoon testing the differences in casting and handling between the two sizes using 50 lb braid, and am some what surprised by my results.

Rods design purpose:
It is being designed as duel purpose rod.
First; for in tight casting/pitching in heavy cover using 30-40 lb braid
Second; as a swimbait rod for throwing 4-6’ swim baits on 15-20 fluorocarbon
( I did not do any testing with the floro because I have been using floro’s on rods with guides down to 2mm for over a year now and know from experience the rod will function flawlessly in that capacity

Components

Blank:
Batson: RX8+C865 heavy action fast blank; designed as a workhorse blank
(Jig / Slop / Frog) for pulling fish out from heavy cover and grass mats.

Guides
Batson: Alps #8 double ft stripper guide all single after that 5mm 4mm and 5- 3mm or 3.5mm (the only guides I changed were the 5 runner’s) kept the locations the same
Blanks weight rating 3/8 to 1-1/4 oz.

Reel: Shimano Core 7.1 flipping version, this is also a workhorse reel with only 4 bearings designed for battling heavy cover. (I an a little disappointed with the reel and think some of the results I received were because of exceeding the reels limitations)
When using this rod for swim bait I will most likely be using a different reel that performs better for that function.

NOTES: neither the reel nor the blank are designed for long range casting, but more for in close tough hand to hand combat.

Line: Spider wire 50 lb braided Stealth, (brand of preference).

Casting weights:
¼ oz .lead weight, and a 1/2oz flipping jig-no trailer

I use ¼ oz .lead weight to test all my rods regardless of their weight rating-it keeps my results consistent and I know what to expect from different series of blanks.
NOTES:
In the 10-4 article in rod maker, it said I use a 1/2oz. But that was a typing error on my part.
Did not adjust reels casting controls at all after first time felt I would create too many variables.
½ oz flipping jig; to give me some real world results as that is what will be on the rod most of the time when pitching.
Both weights at the lower end of the blank’s rating

Actual test: stand at predetermined point make mutable over hand casts, and under hand pitches down range. Places flags were weights land, measure and record average results

Results;
Pitching
3mm ¼ oz.-----50.5 ft.__________3.5mm ¼ oz --------38.5 ft
3mm1/2 jig----61. ft.__________3.5mm ½ jig--------57 ft.

Casting
3mm ¼ oz-----116 ft.___________3.5mm ¼ oz-------126
3mm ½ jig-----116 ft___________3.5mm ½ jig--------125

NOTES;
The fact that the ¼ oz weight actually casts further then the ½ oz jig using the 3.5mm guides leads me to speculate it is the reel limiting the casts. I could be wrong not sure.

What surprised me the most was in the pitching test was that the 3mm guides out performed the 3.5mm guides by a large percentage.

When pitching with the ¼ oz weight and 3.5mm guides I had less control then with the 3mm’s and lost accuracy consistently landing left of my cast area.
I’m thinking what Bobby had said in an earlier post that “the smaller guides cut sown on line slap” may have something to do with it, and may also have something to do with the casting distances.

Also did some side arm roll type rifle casting which is how I will be casting a lot when skipping jigs up under docks and over hanging shore line cover. Did not take any measurements so all I can say is that this is one awesome blank, it’s a broom stick but has enough tip to absolutely riffle bait.

So the choice; go for the little larger 3.5mm guides for the extra 10 ft of casting distance that I don’t need with this rod, along with the extras weight.
Or the 3mm guides for the accuracy and control I want when pitching into cover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2008 05:59PM by Steve Gardner.

steve i would love to see that rod. can you bring it to the show?

Yes I will have it at the show.

Steve

Good job.

Since I don't have your procedures and controls (otherwise I would do it myself), please consider trying the experiment with all 3mm's and all 3.5mm's. No step down guides.

Thanks for sharing.

Bobby;
I just finished the handle on one yesterday that I am considering using all 3mm on, so I might do some more testing with the 3.5mm.

The reason for starting with the 8mm guide on this rod is because I may be flipping with it from time to time and wanted the finger clearance between line and the blank.

Makes me wonder how much it changes on casting stepping up to 4s. Could the micros not be a good choice for max casting distance?

I don't think Steve or anyone else has ever claimed they were the right choice for maximum casting distance. I'm going back to when I met & spoke to Steve last year, and I got the feeling was if there is any loss of distance with teh tiny guides, it is negliigible becasue you can cast far enough with them.

Alex;
I don’t think there is or would be. I purposely used 50 lb in an effort to max out the 3mm guides capabilities. And because another builder specifically ask me about that size line
This rod will most likely never see 50 lb braid in real life usage. 30 lb most of the time and maybe and occasional 40 lb for one particular lake I fish.

On other rods I have 6'6" to 7' long with anything from 10lb fluorocarbon to 20 lb braid and guide sizes down to 2mm they out cast every other rod I use.
If I was looking for casting distance? In this instance, my first choice would be to change out the reel then the blank. Before using a larger guide. Going from 3mm to 4mm almost doubles the weight of them.

For the record took and weighed the 3mm on a jewelers scale last week

It takes 6- black framed Zirconium 3mm guides to weight 0.3 grams
And 5- black frames TiN Gold 3mm guides to weight about the same (I say about the same because the scale was flocculating between 0.28 and 0.3 grams)

Realistically your thread and epoxy you use may weigh more then the guides

double posted, my bad



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2008 04:40PM by Steve Gardner.

Makes sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to post all that.

Steve,
Could you tell me how was the rods wrapped? Spiral or conventional? How to avoid line scrub with such small guides?
Which brands sell 2 & 3 sized guides?
Thanks in advance

Regards,
Bartek