At least, i think it is odd. I'm hoping someone out there has built one, or maybe even seen one.
I have been asked to build a short surf spinner, most likely used for stripers, 7 1/2 to 8 feet long, one piece, with just three guides. The first guide, according to the client's description, sounds like a size 70, stainless steel guide. The second is smaller, but same type, and the third is a ceramic insert. He tells me they are used to cast 150 yards out, and are made of graphite. I think he'd be better off with glass or composite, but I'm open to opinions.

anyway, sound familiar to anyone?

I think I would ask him for his written specifications for all parts of the rod. Quote him a price and ask for a performance waiver by his signature and payment up front. Or second choice which may be even better - "See you later alligator!" }>

Tell him you'd like to see one just like he's describing before you even take on a project like that.

If their casting 150 yds. I'd like to see one, here in Oregon we have 13' to 16' sturgeon rods with Daiwa 50 H's and we don't cast that far, we use a sling shot system(with 48oz ball lead) in the back of a pickup.

Three guides is a typical North East old school surf rod.

Fran,

150 yards is a long way to cast. I'd have to see it to believe it.

3 guides might be fine for the 'cast', but how will that rod do fighting a big fish? Sounds like it would need a VERY strong blank to withstand that kind of stress distribution.....

I'm skeptical by nature. I'd build it, but I'd get paid up front and would offer no guarantees....

Buddy

I like Bill and Buddy's replies. This guy is going to be standing over your shuolder the entire time of the build. Worse, he's never going to be satisfied, regardless of what you do.

We use our order sheet to document every detail of what we're going to do, including estimating the number of guides, min and max. We can do this because we have the experience to know roughly how the design will work as we talk to the customer about what he wants. He signs it and we get 50% down. If his demands are unrealistic, we'll tell him that. 150yds on anything other than a ful surf stick is a bit much, although I'm sure it's been done by someone, somewhere. We build 9' surf sticks for 4oz that will get 110-120yds, on light line and for someone with very fast hands. Trust me, if the guy can't do 150yds, he'll blame it on you, regardless of the fact that he never cast anything that far in his life before.

If he's gonna design it for you, make him bring you one like that. Make him cast it. If he can't get 150yds with it, then you know what his capabilities are. Also, you'll know what ohe has pictured in his mind so you can emulate it. Otherwise, even if you get the money up front, he'll want it back. Very often, a customer like this wants you to build him something at apricce less than what he'd pay retail, and that's his whole purpose in coming to you. We usually find that out when we lay out the specs and quote the price, and the guy kind of chokes on it, protesting that he can buy one already made, cheaper.

Best of all, just say "no".

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2008 01:42AM by Russ Pollack.

The first thing you need to do, is inform him that you'll build it the way he wants, but that if you do, it is HE that supplies the warranty, performance guarantee, etc.

Any time you build a rod to the exact specs a customer gives you (outside normal things like handle length, etc.) you need to make them understand that you are the expert on rod building and if they will not take your advice, they are going to get exactly what their own knowledge provides and nothing more.

..............

I kind of thought 150 was a stretch. I built a 9' surf rod, and it won't travel that far.This guy was going to find me a picture of the ones he'd seen. I figured that if he ends up actually ordering one at all, I'd tell him I wouldn't guarantee performance with that kind of construction. I get the idea this guy can't really distinguish between 150 and 75 yards. Anyway, by the time I get this priced, he probably will change his mind. Thanks to all who opined.

Actually, pretty common in some parts of the country.
If you use a blank that has a nice uniform taper - no fast or extra fast tips please - the 3 guide setup works just fine.

Also, with a very large spinning reel, and very large guides as he suggests - it is possible to cast a very long distance.
I am skeptical of the 150 yards, unless he has an 80 mph off shore wind behind him. However, if he does have a very big wind behind him, and a good weight on the end - it should be possible.

The blank is critical in that it has a very slow taper, and is of a pretty heavy action. Lighter than that, or faster action - you are going to have problem with blank breakage, and or improper loading due to the rod flex. However, with a heavy action rod, on a spinning rod with large guides, there will be no issue.

Good luck.
Roger

p.s.
I reread your post, and your client is right on.
The blank should be graphite, and it needs to be a relatively light in weight blank - although on the stiff and heavy action side.
The rod needs to be light in weight so that you can get a good cast without pitching out your shoulder. The graphite will make it stiffer and allow the use of fewer guides to work with the blank.

Roger

That is an odd request and I am anxious to see what he brings you. I have built many surf rods, and even some with as little as 4 guides, but they are typically for guys like Billy mentioned, old school surf rats who know only one way. They are typically 10' medium heavy slow taper blanks with a moderate to slow action. Reels are large, often Van Staal VS250 and VS300. Usually the butt guide and the following guide are Titanium wire rings and then switch to something like a Hardloy and then a SIC tip.

I just can't see using that old school design on a 7 1/2 - 8 foot rod. A 70 on an 8 foot rod is gonna look like a Nerf Basketball hoop for the kids! LOL Like others have advised and it sounds as if you have already done, be cautious.

Some years ago I had a client request a similar rod - very few guides, large rings, etc. It was being built on a glass blank so I bought 2, built one in the manner he wanted and one the way I wanted. When he arrived to pick his rod up I let him cast it and he was fine with it - said it was just like others he'd had over the years. He was happy, until...

I took out the other one, built in a more modern fashion and let him cast that one. He was overwhelmed at how much better it was. He said he preferred it and wanted that one instead. Too late - he had already paid me to build the first one according to his specs. He ended up buying them both and giving the first one to his brother.

.................

HA HA HA... the old bait and switch!

Regards......Doug@
TCRds