Just curious..... I have seen many posts about the amount of time it takes to put on finish.

Maybe it's the type of rods I am building,
Maybe it's the amount of finish I am putting on,
Maybe it's that I am doing guides, and butt wrapp at the same time,
Maybe it's the size of the rods I am building,
Or maybe I am just plain slow...... :-)

I have seen posts about 15 seconds per wrap........

It takes me 3-5 minutes per wrap and then the butt section. I am building heavy rods that have underwrap, and usually double guide wraps and then I have about 10" at the butt wrap and signature area that I coat. I get under the guides and feet carefully, I free hand the edges carefully, I run linear tio get a smooth finish, and then when I complete the butt usually about 30 minutes have gone by. I now let it sag..... wick it off..... put it in the dryer and look for bubbles, and hit it with a little heat....... Now I leave it alone.......

The first coat takes me about 40 minutes for all listed above......... My finish comes out looking good, nice and even, no complaints about the job I am doing, I am just wondering if you guys are speed demons or you are doing light rods, than simply get the feet done with no underwrap, and iff you include the butt section or do it another time.......

Just curious......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2008 01:23PM by John Whiteside.

I don't know how it could take you that long to coat a wrap. You load the brush, lower it to the wrap, rotate the rod once, perhaps twice. reload the brush and repeat. Mere seconds. Long wraps with underwraps might take a full 30 seconds, maybe.

Don't try to do the epoxy's job for it - it knows how to flow and level, you can't make it do that. In fact, trying to do that will almost ensure that it won't.

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John dont feel like the lone stranger. It takes me that long too. Always has and always will because it works for me and speed has little importance to me. I think the key is - Are you happy with the finished product? If the answer is YES then you must be doing it right(for you). I find that changing things can have two outcomes - good or bad. Please dont take that as "dont ever change". Change to better your product is of course good but always run a test first and see if you are creating a problem by trying to solve a problem. Weigh the outcome. I know it is old school but I still go by the saying "dont fish what aint broken"

Tom,
I understand what you are saying, buuuut I am recoating the entire wrap underwrap and guide feet, so It takes about 30 seconds for each of the guide feet as that is the easy part, but getting under the guides, carefully is done while the rod is not turning takes a couple of minutes.

I might just be slow.....

No offense, but you're slow. If you go to the photo page and look under my name, you can see photos of one-coat epoxy jobs done on all manner of rods and each of them is glass smooth and straight enough you can lay a ruler on the back side and no see light under any portion of it. Large saltwater rods with underwraps are shown there as well. None of these wraps would possibly have taken more than 30 seconds to coat.

What often happens, is that guys spend so much trying to do the epoxy's job for it, that by the time they get past 2 or 3 guides the epoxy has now gelled to the point where it's hard to work. The key is to put it on and move along. It's far easier to come back after all the guides have been coated and touch in any dry or imperfect areas than it is to try and work with thick, stringy epoxy because you spent too much time trying to get everything perfect on the first couple guides.

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Thank you Tom for the feedback and no offense taken... That is why I asked the question..... I am going to put finish on a rod tonight (after I finish wrapping it, so I am going to try and just put it on and get moving to see how it goes..... I do not care to be waisting time. I have seen your gallery and your work is incredible, so I don't doubt what you are saying....

Doc, thank you as well. I may find out tonight that I prefer the time taking method as opposed to the 30 second rule......

Thanks for the feedback. Anymore is appreciated.......

I don't like to call it a 30 second "rule." Let's just say that it can be done and done very well in 30 seconds. If you take more time and still get good results, you certainly can continue to do it that way and you won't be doing anything incorrect. But if you're not getting the results you want, you might be taking too much time to apply your finish.

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Thanks again, I am not getting bad results.... good clear, level finish on my rods.... no bubbles.

In 30 minutes the epoxy is still flowing pretty good.

I usually don't heat it befor I mix it, because I have found if it is thicker (around room temp 70 +/-) it still levels out nicely, but doesn't flow to fast and drip.

My biggest reason for the question is about time savings and not quality.... if I can do it complete with clean-up in 20-30 minutes rather than 50-60.... I will try..

John how wide is your appliation brush - are your hand turning or doing on a Flex Coat 200 rpm finish machine with stop clutch? Which finish for first coat?

Bill, I am applying the finish on my Angler's Workshop Deluxe Power Wrapper with self centering lathe chuck, using the foot pedal to move the rod at low RPM's.

I then move it to the low rpm dryer for levelling and drying....... I use Flex Coat high build lately, but I also use Thread Master as well. The application brush is not big, it is the yellow handle flex coat brushes.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2008 08:36PM by John Whiteside.

These were Bass casting rods, but last night I mixed 2 batches of finish and coated two rods back to back. Start to finish including staring at them a while to make sure everything looked good was 50minutes for me. I only know this because a TV show was starting at 8pm in the background, it was an hour long and I sat down to see the last 10 minutes of it. Threadmaster. So I'm guessing it takes me about 25 minutes from the time I tack off the wraps, mix the finish, apply, and walk away.

If you're happy with the way your rods look, I wouldn't try and speed up just to save a few minutes when a complete rod is at stake!

DR

Get yourself some craft type ox hair brushes - at least 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch wide. Round brushes were never meant for epoxy finish application. (Neither were any brushes really, but a nice flat, ox hair brush will do the trick nicely.)

......

1. Get rid of the brushes.
2. Use a spatula for applying the finish.
3. Heat the finish a bit to get it nice and thin.
4. For double coated guides work with about 2 or three guides at a time. You need to let the epoxy penetrate well and soak in. By heating the finish a bit, it gets very nice and thin and penetrates very well. However, the heating quickens the cure, so that you will only have about 3-5 minutes working time per batch. Use one batch for the long butt wrap, One batch for the first 1/2 of the rod, and a 3rd batch for the 2nd 1/2 of the rod. Leave the rod in place with the guides up, and quickly work the coating under the guides. Then, while rotating the rod, apply finish to the rest of each of the first three guides. Since the finish has been warmed, the finish will have flowed, and smoothed and thickened by the time you ahve the first three guides complet. Then, go ahead and do the other half of the rod and the butt wrap.

5. About 10-15 minutes for a perfect finish, with no gaps, or sags.

I use a 30 rpm motor while applying the finish to parts of the guide that aren't under the guide. This does a beautiful job of leveling the finish as well as insuring nice smooth edges. Don't put too much finish on the wrap. Work from the center to the edges of the guide, and as the finish flows to the edge of the wrap, it will leave a perfectly smooth edge with no overruns.

However, if you are happy with the results of your current procedure, and you have the time - don't worry about changing anything.

Remember, you are supposed to be enjoying what you are doing. If you are enjoying it, and are not pressed for time, bec ause you have 500 more rods to get built = don't change anything.

Take care
Roger

Thank you all for the comments.

I went down last night and applied finish to a Seeker 210 I had just completed. Eight guides with underwrap, butt section from last guide to the butt wrapp (18") , and the tip...... I mixed 15 cc of finish looked at the clock and started.......

I am just slow..... 34 minutes..... not racing, just steady work. I will try different brushes, and a little warming of the finish, but I am not unhappy with my results. My wraps look good, and the finish comes out even; I just heard people saying they apply the finish in 5-10 minutes and I wanted to verify and see if I could improve my process.

I do enjoy this and have several backed up to build, it isn't a hurry, but my least favorite part seems to be the finish. I enjoy wrapping and selecting colors, but I always feel my heart rate pick up when I do the finish..... tick tock, tick tock, tick tock,

I feel like I am rushing to do it in 30 minutes, but others do it with ease in 10, so I will try a few other things, so the finish portion of building a rod will be as enjoyable as other parts....

Another trick I use is to take the drive belt off and rotate by hand. This is especially helpful when spinning the ends to get a nice clean line. You can load the spatula or brush, lay it on the blank and give it a quick spin around one time and create a nice clean edge. I have a process where I do the edges on each end of the wrap first, then one quick spin in the middle to ensure the surface is wetted, a couple quick touches, then move on. Maybe not 30 seconds, but definietly less than a minute per wrap.

The slow rotation of the drying motor really slows things down.

Terry

I always rotate the rod by hand so that I have better control while applying finish.

Another thing you might do, is only finish out 1/2 the rod at a time, mixing a new batch for each half, upper and lower. That way you may not feel as much pressure from the clock.

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Terry,
Rather than using a rod dryer to apply the finish, use the power wrapper.
That way, you can use the foot pedal to stop and start the rod at any point for applying finish, hear the guide foot, and then popping the pedal to spin the rod for the clean edge finish that you speak of.

After applying the finish - transfer the rod to the drying station with the slower turning constant speed motor.

Take care
Roger