We have a customer who wants us to rehab a very old H&I 3pc, 9', for about 6wt. The original snake guides are missing, or corroded pretty badly, including the tip.

He agreed to have us use some stainless steel snakes that will fit quite nicely, with a more modern thread. But I've been thinking - he he has a great deal of love into this rod; it was his Dad's, from long ago, and he got it at least fifty years ago. He wants us to fix it so he can pass it on. Would you, knowing that, replace the original guides (and stripper and tip) with modern items but in a black finish, plus the original wine-colored silk, or would you go with more current stuff?

Just kind of wanted your thoughts - - - it's no more work, either way, except winding silk is not my favourite thing to do. We're gonna leave the original trim bindings in-place, re-glue the ferrules, and repair a split in the upper section at the ferrule; however, we're not going to refinish the stick itself, as the finish has a nice patina to it and has held up well. I'm leaning toward surprising him with something close to the original, but so many of you have a better "feel" for this than I do, that I wondered what you thought?

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Russ I would if you don't incur additional cost try and get as close to the original as possible makes for a nice gesture and perhaps additional orders of course that's easy for me to say sitting here and not having to search for components nor do the wrapping
John

Go original. Will probably help him on the trip down memory road, remembering how the rod looked when his Pop took him fishing.

Carrington

Hi Russ,
I'm not sure that using silk thread is needed if you can find Gudebrod or Madeira thread of the same color. I'm guessing that the thread used was finer diameter than that of A or 40 wt. A lot of silk thread used in rod building in those days was 2/0 which is just a bit smaller than size A. If the original guides were black, I would use the same color, but might deviate for the stripper and use a non-plated zirconia ringed guide that Batson, Pac Bay, and others sell. The non-plated zirconia ring is very dark--almost black. You didn't mention it, but the tip top should be examined and replaced a well if worn or corroded.

I've wrapped a lot of rods using 2/0 silk thread and I find it no more difficult than A or 2/0 nylon. I always pack with a finger as I wrap and then do a final packing at the end. I mostly wrap manually and I often tilt the rod so that each threadrolls off of the previous wrapped thread and the thread packs pretty well. You do need to be careful to not form an over wrap. Now I use an OptiVisor to avoid over wraps because my eyesight isn't what it used to be.

How is the grip and reel seat? I just finished a bamboo rebuild and found that I had to replace the reel seat. In my case I could not find a replacement of the original and put on a modern reel seat with a wood insert and then put a burl cork grip with Tru-Oil finish so the cork color matched the reel seat insert. It was not quite the original, but my customer liked it a lot. Have fun and I hope some of my comments were useful.

Mike Blomme

Snake Brand still makes the high carbon steel guides and agate strippers. Nice, beutifully finshed and prepped guides.

Russ,

I would go original, too.

Is there a way to add a patina or some weathering to the new wraps? My cousin has an antique business and folks pay a lot more for a chair refinished as close to the old way as possible...and if it comes out looking 150 yrs. old (but with new stains and varnish) they love it all the more. This may be a way out there idea.

I don't know if you have considered this byt it is very likely that the thread wraps were color preserved since most makers did not do clear wraps back then. it is also likely that the wrap color has changed due to ageing of the varnish. it is probably far from what it was way back when. when you remove a guide look to the underside of the thread and you will know what the original thread color was. you can then probably find a thread color among the gudbrod nylons and some other brands that will get you there but you wll have to use color preserver. if you hand to match the existing aged color that will be somewhat more difficult. when i want to have a good idea of what the old thread looked like i cut along the guide wo i can remove a fairly large chunk of thread. that makes it easier to judge and compare the color with a new spool.

Gosh, I just don't know where to start, except to thank everone so much for all the ideas and help. Lemme see what I can say, in no particular order:

Yes, the tip is loose anyway and badly corroded, so it'll have to be replaced in any case.

We've found a thread for him (we let him go through our entire stock, as we do with all our customers) and he picked Gudebrod A #206.

The original wraps have that dark red, almost dull patina - like a very dark red wine, or a cognac, or some of the sherrys - well, you get the idea. I'm pretty sure they were 2/0 silk and were varnished. Now, we can indeed replicate the old varnish finishing process - one of the first rods I ever worked on was my own Orvis Madison and I got those wraps pretty well done, and I did use silk, but that was about 40yrs ago. They've lasted this long but I was thinking of the more modern materials that have been made since then and thinking of going that route to give him sort of the best of both worlds. But then he called me this afternoon. We had shown him a rod that we recently finished (we call it the "20-year Rod", but that's another story - it'll be at the Show) and he wanted to ask me not to make the finish so "high-build" or "glossy". I reasurred him that we were planning on using TM "Lite" to for finish over a coat of CP. He seemed OK with that, but that's what got me thinking about the whole approach. I like silk, and I do use an Opti unit too. For some reason I hadn't thought of Madeira but that's also a super idea.. I think I'm going to try all three on a test strip and compare them.

I think I'd rather spend a little on this one both for the smile it would bring to his face (and maybe his heart) and the later referrrals. In fact, he contacted us because he was referred by the guy who wrote about us in his outdoor column. Sometimes we just get lucky. I need to figure the cost, but I'm close to doing it anyway.

At the moment, it looks like we can clean up the reel seat and cork pretty easily. The cork doesn't look rotted yet - just dirty from normal use. The reel seat may be a little more problematical - removing it, for one thing. We'll see.

I'll try to find the "Snake" brand stuff. Anyone have a preferred source to suggest?

Again, thanks so very much. This one is gonna be fun!

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2008 06:25PM by Russ Pollack.

Keep in mind that the H&I rods were a lower end rod , and even some of the higher end makers used nylon thread.. you can burn a little of the old to see which it was..
Regarding the reel seat,, keep in mind a lot of them were pinned as well as glued. Boiling water will do wonders for the old reel seats regarding removal.
Have fun.

Thanks, Fred. Hadn't thought of the idea that they may have used nylon thread.

First thing to fix is the delaminated section the tip piece. If we can get past that, then we'll start messing with the threads.

I know this is a low-end rod, but not to him. I think he has a mental picture of what it looked like and felt like many, many years ago when his Dad first gave it to him. I'd sure like to be able to put that little kid's grin on his face one more time.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Russ,

try this site if you decide to go with original fittings.

[]

They have lots of great old stuff and their list is changing pretty regularly.

Paul

I fish therefore I am.
www.hookeduprods.com