Buddy and Russ;
Sorry but I disagree with you about rod sensitivity. Being able to feel what going on at the other end of the line is absolutely critical in the fishing I do. It may not mater when you’re watching a strike indicator or fishing with worms and crickets I don’t know because use them or a bobber.

Sensitivity is not just about feeling the bite either. As competitive bass fisherman, many times being able to distinguish bottom composition or structure, determining whether my bait is coming in contact with a rock or feeling my line slide over a submerged limb is just as important then feeling the bite.

For example; Bass tend to pattern themselves almost exactly the same in an area of the lake. If some of them are holding on rocks that day them most of them are holding on rocks that day, the next day they might for the most part all be holding on wood, some days docks some days submerged lay downs. And some times bigger fish will prefer one structure on a particular day while the smaller fish are on another type.

Now if I’ve patterned the bigger fish to be on rocky points on a particular day. I want need and have rods that are sensitive enough so that when my bait hits a rock I know it’s a rock. If I start fishing a point and don’t feel rocks down there then I know I need to move off the point in search of another This saves me a lot of wasted time during a tournament, and can be the difference between getting a pay check or not.

Yes I agree that you loose much sensitivity through your line which is why I need the absolute most sensitive rod I can build to compensate for that lose.

If I have a rod with little feel combined with line that has little feel and that is the best I can do then I my as well go shopping at Wal-Mart’s for my rods.

By the way Russ very few bass fisher men that I know keep their fingers on the line. Most do what I do and that is to palm the reel on bait casters. The last thing I want to be hanging onto when I go to set the hook is the fishing line.

Sensitivity may not be an issue in a lot of fishing for different species, but in bass fishing it is critical.

Richard; Your understanding is pretty close to what I’m saying, believe, and practice in my rod building

Steve,

I agree that a sensitive rod is helpful.

What I don't believe is that the human nervous system can 'feel' the difference that using a particular material in a reel will make.

I get the 'feel the rocks' thing. But I could do that. and do it easily, with plain old Stren and a 1990 era Bionic Blade rod from Bass Pro shops. You can't do it 'better' once you can do it, you can do it. I could do it before I ever owned a graphite rod. I had to learn how, and practice it, but I could do it.

I could feel the bottom, tell the difference between chunk rock, sand, gravel, and plain old round rocks. I could do it with a spinning rod with a Mitchell 300 reel, and with a Shimano Stradic. It worked fine with Lew's speed spool, Garcia Ambassadeur, and Ryobi all graphite casting reels.

I'm not saying that you don't want a sensitive rod. I'm just saying that the rods and techniqes for building them we have now are fine as far as that goes. That worrying about the materials in reel construction is pointless with regard to sensitivity. Using space age materials and doing every thing you can to enhance vibration transfer is fine, but it truly doesn't matter to the fisherman after you reach a certain point. Feel is feel. It's not just the rod that does that. Most of it is the person holding it. Some guys are just ham handed, and try to compensate by trying to 'buy' feel. That doesn't work. Amazingly, it's the guys who fish a lot who seem to have the best 'feel' regardless of the rod they use....

I'll always try to go lighter, when and where I can. After that, it's all pretty subjective. How many faries can dance on the head of a pin?

Buddy Sanders

Thanks Steve ...........

Uncle Russ ........... something about throwing a bait and a bobber with a custom made rod just doesn't sit right with me ........ and Uncle Russ and Buddy ....... I fully understand the different fishing techniques but I want to build something special in a rod ......... otherwise I can buy a nice one off the rack for a couple of bucks or one at a fishing flea market for almost nothing ............ believe me I have ...... I think I have about 50 without counting the trolling rods ............ I don't have to spend my time and money and effort trying to build something a little better in some way if I can just buy it off the rack ........... that's why I spend time on this site ......... to hopefully learn the finer points of making something special ......... for me ....... or for someone I want to give it too .......... I'm not a professional ....... I'm just a beginner but I want to upgrade my rods to the best I can build ...... for me .......

and right now I ( and others) would like to explore how to make them delightfully sensitive with as many angels on the head of a pin as I can get ........

I fish mainly saltwater right now ....... and there are some things I would like to try such as finding ways to get lighter lines deeper around structure with smaller and lighter lures and being to react to that structure before I get hung up ......... or to feel the milisecond that fish @#$%& the passing lure in so I can set the hook and get him away from that structure before he has a change to react in some way ........... or even use a heaver lure on a lighter rod to make it do things that others can't easily do that will drive the fish crazy .......... alot of this depends on sensitivity

Bottom line is I (like many others) are here to learn about rod building and to share if and when I learn something that may be of value to others ........... I'm here to split hairs and to cram angels on a pin ........ because that's what makes the difference to me ........ the difference between a custom made masterpiece that I made and a production rod ...........

The techniques of fishing don't matter to me at this point ........ making the ROD as sensitive as I can using any given technique is what matters to me now .......... and I think I have learned some of the essentials ........ thanks for the sharing of information ........

Buddy I agree that the people who fish more have tuned their senses better.

Quote: "I'm just saying that the rods and techniques for building them we have now are fine as far as that goes."
Is like saying we can’t make computers better, or cars, reels, or anything that is constructed. Don't take this personally, but there is no way I can buy that.

We can always improve on anything that is constructed including rods.

Quote: "worrying about the materials in reel construction is pointless with regard to sensitivity. Using space age materials and doing every thing you can to enhance vibration transfer is fine, but it truly doesn't matter to the fisherman after you reach a certain point. Feel is feel"

It matters to this fisherman, and based on how this discussion began. It matters to others. Maybe not to you and that’s fine, but it does matter to some of us.

As far as feel goes I could rub my hand across a person’s back and they will feel it. But if I punch them up side the head they feel it more and I had better be prepared for the consequences of helping them feel

Quote: "What I don't believe is that the human nervous system can 'feel' the difference that using a particular material in a reel will make".
You might be right.

All I know is that when not even thinking about it, or paying attention, even half asleep. I can feel a Nat land on my neck, mosquito on the back of my arm, a flea jump on my foot or a tick crawl across my knee cap. Things that weigh nothing, barely noticeable, that move slowly, and have the softest of touch, and that being true. I think when I'm concentrating, focused, in tune to what is going with my rod and reel. My nervous system (which I believe is human) can feel the difference in materials and construction.

You are also right that "it is subjective". Maybe I can feel the difference because I believe I can, and you don't because you believe you can't

If using particular materials in rods can make a difference in feel. Then why would using particular materials in reels not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2008 06:28PM by Steve Gardner.