Question #2 Stabilized woods.....

Does anyone out there use NON-STABLIZED woods in their handles and if so, are you getting good results? If you are getting good results, in other words, the wood is not swelling, cracking, and changing the handles, what are you doing to the wood to achieve your results?

I have some really nice un-stablized wood and I want to make some handles and actually I have already made some handles with the stuff. During a search of the archives on this site, I ran across a method to stabilize the wood and I don't really want to do that, but I will if and ONLY IF I HAVE TOO!

As a rule, I always use stabilized wood in my handles.

I was thinking.......probably my first mistake.......That if you glue the handle together with wood spacers or end pieces as I usually do in my rods, then I could coat the wood or treat it and it would not change, swell, crack or do other funny things that would ruin a handle....causing a really bad day.

Most of my fishing is in the High Sierras and sometimes in really bad weather. Is this going to be a problem? Please advise...

Terry

As you know, wood moves. I coat my non-stablized wood with Tru-Oil and frankly I've not have any problems thus far. Many of the rods I've used wood trim pieces do see weather like rain, heat, cold, etc. but I've not had any problem thus far. What, if any problems you have will more than likely depend on where and how you use the wood.

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Thanks Tom, that is exactly what I was looking for. Someone like yourself that has used the non stablized wood.

Thanks and I am coating mine with TRU OIL as well and was wondering if that would work. Is it me or does TRU OIL dry slowly? I could only find the spay and I have been spraying it on a cap and then brushing it on, DRIES VERY SLOWLY, like two days before it is not tacky.

Thanks again Tom.....Imagine what rod building would be like without this board as a resource. Way Way Cool!!!!

Terry

Terry,

Another faster option is Permagloss. I use that over my non-stable wood.

DR

Another good idea..............did not think of that.....

Thanks DR

Terry

Either way, the wood is still going to experience some movement as the environment it's used it changes. Not as much as if you left it unfinished, but at least some.

...............

Terry,

I use non stabilized wood on most of my rods and have never had a problem. I generally use Tru Oil, but recently have been using a polyurethane gel from Craft Supplies USA and really like it! [www.woodturnerscatalog.com] If you do any lathe work at all this is a great catalog to have

You might also contact J.P. Timberlake as he uses numerous finish types

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Tom and Mike ...thank you both for the info. I will check out the catalog.

I am leaning to TRU OIL and then check out Permagloss and then check out the polyurethene.

Thanks guys

Terry

Terry, I rarely use stabilized wood. I have been having great luck with CA (super glue) and BLO (boiled linseed oil) finish on my wood handles. I have found most of my problems with swelling and contracting at different rates has been self inflicted. I really have to be aware of the direction of the grain in the different layers of wood and the need to keep the grain running the same direction. Most of my problems have occurred when I run a vertical grain against a horizontal grain. The other thing I have found is give the wood a week or two before final sanding, (give it a chance to acclimate) I use veneer for accents and many times the grain in the veneers will raise after the finish is applied. If I give it a week or two and then sand it again the grain will stay down and not reappear. Mark

Terry ,

Lightly wetting the wood before the final sanding and letting it dry will raise the grain and then can be sanded smooth.
Has anyone used the friction applied shellac finishes that the pen turners use?I'm pretty happy with tru oil but always looking for better products. Dave

I almost always use non-stabilized woods. I've never had a problem. I think the big issue is to make sure that your wood--especially if it's found wood--is at a proper moisture level. I also like to let my wood sit a little between steps. For example, I'll cut my blank, let it sit for a few days, drill my holes, let it sit, epoxy it on a mandrel, let it sit, sand/finish, let it sit, then put in on the blank. I don't know that letting it sit between steps really helps any, but a good pen-turner suggested that to me years ago, and so I've used it.

Another great finish is what my junior high school shop teacher called French Polish. It is 50% shellac and 50% linseed oil. It is applied with a rag while turning piece. A very nice and waterproof finish. I have used it on two homemade foregrips and all is well after a year and a half.

Larry

I think if the wood is dry when you make a handle it would and should last a very long time. Tru-Oil works very well or else it would not be used on gun stocks that see bad weather from time to time. I cannot ever remember seeing a cracked gun stock. I do not think gun stocks are stabilized wood but just sealed well for weather. I think Tru-OIl has a pot life once it has been opened. The longer it has been open the longer it takes to dry. I get a new bottle as soon as I start having drying problems. Have a great day, Rich.

Terry,

I've turned grips out of Apple wood from a tree that my Dad cut down. Like Rich says, if you let the wood dry down to about 5 - 8% content it should be fine. I used Tru-Oil also, with no problems.

Bill in WV

I think it matters some how the rod is going to be used. I have made most of my flyrod reel seats from unstabilized wood. And I have bought seats from winston, struble, and REC that did not have stabilized seats. But you use a fly rod for a half day or so, generally don't keep the reel and handle under water for a long time, and dry it and put it up. However if you through a rod out on a boat deck in a clamp and leave it their half a season, the wood seat is going to come apart.

In use, I have one maple insert under a cap and ring seat and I sometimes have a hard time getting the reel off the rod at the end of a long day because the seat swells a little. I tend to use wood that does not swell much, like burl redwood or elm, and I soak the insert in thinned varnish for a few days and then let it dry before I install and final finish it. No surface finish is going to keep wood from picking up some moisture.

I have a couple of seats from Venneri that were stabilized. I turned my first stabilized seat the other day. I don't really like it. It is acrylic stabilized, burl cherry, but I just don't like the real light color. I don't know how Robert stabilized the wood he used, but the color of the wood is a lot better.

Used to inlet , fit and finish quite a few gun stocks back in my younger days. Bought them from Reinhardt Fagen and Bishop, roughed out. They were only kiln dried, never stabilized in any other way. I have used either Boiled Linseed Oil or Tru Oil to finish with and never had a problem after years of use. I always used multiple coats of both and hand rubbed them in. You will get a deeper finish by rubbing it in with your fingers than spraying it on.

I have been playing around with wood stabilization. (Of a sort) I dissolved a couple different kinds of plastics in acetone until the acetone would no longer dissolve anymore plastic. I found that extruded acrylic rod dissolved the fastest. Since my handles are pretty far bored out wise (hollow). When soaking in the acetone/Plexiglas mixer under vacuum then put under pressure they do impregnate with plastic, there is about a 35% weight gain after they are dry. I did not like my first try because the wood had like Bill mentioned a light natural color, buffed up great though. Then I decided to add broken up pieces of smoked Plexiglas glass to the mixture to give it a tint like Tru-Oil would. I thought I was in hog heaven, great color and very clear. It ended up not going completely through the core of the handle. I did not have the handle under vacuum or pressure very long. I think just treating the handles with a mixture like this for a short time will still have benefits. It does have great grain filling properties, lightly sanded and one coat of Tru-Oil over the wood looks like fifteen coats of Tru-Oil. I have put this stabilization stuff on hold again. Have been working on a carbon fiber Fuji IPS seat split grip handle that is much more fun to work on at the moment. Have a great day, Rich.

Jay Hunt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Used to inlet , fit and finish quite a few gun
> stocks back in my younger days. Bought them from
> Reinhardt Fagen and Bishop, roughed out. They were
> only kiln dried, never stabilized in any other
> way. I have used either Boiled Linseed Oil or Tru
> Oil to finish with and never had a problem after
> years of use. I always used multiple coats of
> both and hand rubbed them in. You will get a
> deeper finish by rubbing it in with your fingers
> than spraying it on.


I put Tru Oil on a lint free rag and apply by hand while the grip/seat turns on the lathe, just as you would with CA/BLO finish.
My Tru Oil came in a bottle not a spray can, but I would just spray a bit onto a rag and have at 'er.

Regards
Dave

Fishing is Life the rest is just Details

Dave , that's a good idea. The warmth created by the friction during rotation , along with the pressure from the fingers , should do a better job of sealing than just rubbing it on.

Thanks guys.............I feel a lot better now knowing I am the not the only guy around trying to use un-stabalized wood.

Thanks for everyone's comments and now I know I cna use woods and using techniques you have listed here, make a long lasting handle.

Thanks again

Terry