I’m having trouble understanding line pile up on a level wind bait casting reel. In the spiral wrap article in Volume 6 Issue 5, on the Forhan revolver wrap the 0 and 180 are offset (opposite of the spiral direction) to keep the line centered over the blank so that a “levelwind reel will not tend to lay line heavier on one side of the spool than the other“. And by doing a search there are statements saying “offsetting guides may cause a levelwind reel to pile line to one side of the spool“.

I have a Daiwa Luna that I believe is a levelwind reel. It has a line guide that traverses back and forth as line is wound evenly onto the spool. In observing the line winding onto the reel, as the line guide moves to the left side of the spool, the line rides on the right edge of the line guide and it goes to the left side when it travels back to the right side. If the butt guide is set at 0, the line never actually gets wound at the very edges of the spool (width of the line guide). If a butt guide is offset, I could see where the line wouldn’t get to the very edge on the opposite side of the spool but it seems to me the line would still build up evenly across the rest of the spool to the other side. I played out a bunch of line throughout the house and can’t make the line pile up on one side of the reel no matter what direction the line enters from. If someone could explain what it is/looks like I would appreciate it. Thanks.

I have seen it where when the line is back onto the spool, the line on the spool looks tapered, more on one side of the spool than the other. What I have seen done to correct this is for the top guide, offset it to the side of the spool with the smaller portion of the taper. What it does is get the path of the line when there is tension on it back over to center of the rod and then it gets spooled evenly on the reel. For the bass rods I mostly make, I have not had any real problems with the reel not spooling the line evenly. But I have seen instances of this happening and adjusting the top guide has corrected this.

You're confusing the two statements. Some spiral wraps have the first or butt guide offset to the side of the spiral. The Revolver rod actually offsets the butt guide opposite the side of the spiral. In the later case this ensures that the line will always come onto the reel from an exact 0 degree axis.

If you simply put the butt guide on the 0 degree axis, and if it's large enough, the line will stick to the side that the line passes the blank on. That means your line isn't coming onto the reel from directly in front and if you're pulling a lure that generates enough resistance, the line pressure on one side of the level wind may cause the mechanism to hesitate to that side, resulting in the line piling a bit heavier there.

This isn't always a problem but for Rich's Revolver rods where his customers are cranking hard pulling baits, he negates any chance of this sort of thing by offsetting the guide to the opposite side of the spiral and ensures that the line comes onto the reel from a true 0 degrees.

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We have seen the line want to bunch up off to the offset side while fighting a larger fish, so we always position the butt guide at the "0" axis, on top and in the middle.
One thing i've noticed is the line seems to go on smoother if the butt guide is at least a sz 16, and no closed than 22" from the front of the reel.
It is most noticeable on trolling rods with wider spool reels.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

line build-up is more of a Problem on non-level wind reels with a Spiral wrap.if the butt guide is off set it will pile up to that side,if not layed on carefully using the fingers

Non level wind reels require hand laying of the line, whether spiral wrapped or not. At least that's how they are intended to be used. Winding line onto them without manual help results in something other than a smooth and even line wrap.

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I'm not confusing the two statements - Forhan's method to offset the butt guide opposite of the spiral to prevent pile up versus O'Quinn's method offsetting the butt guide 25-45 degrees "promotes" the line pile up. I just can't see on my levelwind how it can happen. I have one project wrapped exactly like the Forhan revolver, I'll do a Ralph O'Quinn wrap on my current project and maybe I'll be able to see it for myself - then just redo it if necessary. Thanks guys.

Tim,

What happens is that with some levelwind reels, the level wind mechanism can be ever so slightly overcome by a hard pulling crankbait. This makes it hesitate on it's return across to the opposite side and will result in the line gradually getting a little heavier to that side. It also tends to make the line ride to one side of the level wind guide, keeping it (the line) from ever fully reaching the far side of the spool. It can and does happen with some combinations of reels and crankbaits. Not all, but some.

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I offset all my stripper guides as stated in an earlier post, [www.rodbuilding.org]
And have never had a problem with line piling up on one side of the reel whether a worm rod or crank bait rod.
I'm not saying it can't happen. But it has never happened to me, nor have I ever had a complaint from a client.

This is with bass rods and bass bait casting type reels. It might be different with wider spooled reels, but I don’t build the type of rods that require them. So I can’t say.

I agree with the last posting.
In the first spiral rods that I built; I had the same problem as you are having. i.e. the line piling to one side of the rod.
So, I did a bunch of test casting with the next rod; with several different reels.
I found that to have a consisten centering of the line on the spools - with light and heavy tension; I needed to offset the first guide about 5 degrees in the direction of the spiral.
I also find that this was true - with either a simple spiral or a revolver.

By doing this - I found that generally there was little need to have to hand center the line on the reel - (except for the case of non centering salt water reels.

Off set the first guide a bit and you will solve your problem. Cut off the guide, off set a bit - test cast and readjust until you get it where the line centers; and then re tie.

Let us know how much you have to off set to get the line centered. My guess is that it will be 5-10 degrees.

Take care
Roger

Tim:
You said you ran the line throughout the house, well try to pull a little weight on the line out side in the yard as there is not much weight pulling on the line, It will make for a better test than just pulling line along the slick floor on its own slack.
Tight Lines
Bill

Running the line throughout the house was just a way to make some line available. Upon retrieval, I pinched the line between my fingers with gloves on to put some extreme tension on it plus I varied my hand from in front of the reel and then off to the side at a 45 degree angle - seemed like a fair test with no differences. I'm only going to be fishing for Salmon and Steelhead - Tuna, Sailfish, and small Whales might present a different issue. Thanks.

Fish fighting doesn't put much strain on the reel, since the reel is only used to recover slack line, not winch in the fish (the rod moves the fish, the reel recovers the slack line).

It's the lures and crankbaits that tend to cause this problem. You'd have to actually use your reel and the baits you plan to retrieve in order to see if you'll have a line stacking problem with any type of spiral wrap.

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Are there side-by -side photos (for those of us with limited imagination) that show "zero" and "off setting opposite the sprial"? If it was in a back issue I'll look -but don't recall a "side - by - side" photo / discussion of degrees for offsetting

One thing I'll add, be it suited to BASS rods mostly, is that I use a SMALLER stripper (1st guide out from reel). I start on a bass rod with a size 8 ring double footed guide. EVEN on Musky rods, same way. I've never had an issue with line being piled to one side EVER. This may help some...and it may not...but there it is. The smaller ring controls the line.

DR

Tom,
Can you clarify your thoughts on the reel only recovering slack and not acting as a winch. Thinking about the way that most bass fisherman fight fish it seems that we do tend to winch fish to the boat. No doubt the rod takes some of the load, but I dont see bass fisherman pulling on the fish and then cranking down to the water. We tend to use the rod to help maintain constant pressure while we reel or allow the fish to take line. Just curious on your take of this.

It's often refeered to as 'pumping' where one pulls the rod to move the fish then lowers the rod while taling up slack line with the reel. in a pumping motion. You move the fish with the rod.

Once you get the hang of it and get everything synchronized, you can handle large fish more easily.

In fact, reeling against a fish tends to twist the line. If you use braid,you'tr asjing for trouble. Braid twists enough by itself without helping it JMHO

Charlie;
Tim is asking about bait casting spiral wrapped rods. In which case reeling against the fish will not cause any line twisting. That problem occurs only on spinning rods and only if you are reeling against the drag.

Meaning: continuing to reel, while the fish is pulling out drag. If the fish is not pulling drag you’re reeling against the fish will not cause any line twist.

Also I would have to say based on personally experience, that braid is the least line I’ve ever had a problem with line twist on.