A fishing friend of mine works in the aerospace industry and I recently asked him if he had any scraps of dbl axial carbon mesh tubing laying around the labs that might be headed to the trash bin (hey what can I say, I am a frugal builder) and here is his response below. I know the articles made mention of using safety precautions, but this kind of has me worried about bringing this stuff into my shop. Yeah I know there are risk associated with a lot of the materials we rod builders use, but this may be more of a risk than I am willing to take right now. I've already got some respiratory issues to deal with and don't want to take a chance of aggravating the condition. Going to have to give it a good deal more thought, but at least for now, I am going to stick to using just the expanding foam cores with either flock or a thin veneer of Andy's exotic cork. :(

"Yep..we do indeed have quite a bit of this stuff lying about labs and winding buildings on the plant down in Orange County....BUT

You won't catch this boy handling this stuff bare handed. Worse than fiberglass for causing all sorts of respiratory problems. ...Joe, my smart-A PM this evening aside (it was tad over the top) and this goes for anyone else thinking of using this stuff: if you guys are going to use carbon fiber fabric...please do me a favor and use a respirator (not just a dust-mask) and wear latex or pvc vinyl gloves, and safety glasses. This stuff can cause lots of problems if you inhale any of the fine fibers given off when cutting it. We have state-of-the-art HVAC systems in the labs where we use it, limited/controlled access to these buildings as well, not to mention required use of all the above safety gear (plus Tyvek disposable suits) Keep the pets and the family upstairs, or out of the workshop when you're doing something with it, and only allow them to look at it once you have it encapsulated in resin. Store your supply stock in plastic containers with lids and away from prying eyes and curious kids. I know I may sound a tad paranoid, but I've seen the results of over-exposure to it.

Just your old resident rocket surgeon trying to keep his friends around a little longer."

What OSHA has to say...
[www.osha.gov]

Excerpt...
Carbon/graphite fibers dominate the advanced composites industry and may be made from any of three precursors, as discussed in Section C. However, the PAN-based carbon fibers are the predominant form in use today. It is important to ascertain which type of carbon-fiber precursor is used in order to evaluate the hazards.

Pitch-based carbon fibers may be associated with an increased risk of skin cancer, although the evidence is weak. PAN-based carbon fibers did not cause tumors when the same test was conducted. Standard mutagenicity tests conducted on PAN-based carbon fibers were negative.

The principal hazards of carbon-fiber handling are mechanical irritation and abrasion similar to that of glass fibers. Skin rashes are common and reportedly more severe than from glass fibers. Carbon fibers commonly in use are also greater than six micrometers in diameter, making them unlikely to be respirable. An ongoing survey of workers in a carbon-fiber production plant shows no pulmonary function abnormalities and no evidence of dust-related disease.

Carbon fibers may be coated with a material to improve handling, known generically as sizing. The sizing materials are typically epoxy resins. They may be biologically active and cause irritation or sensitization

It's always good to heed such cautions, but for the most part the materials we used on the grips in the latest article are a bit different than what is mentioned here. Any cutting is kept to an absolute minimum (these are sleeves requiring only one quick, straight cut to length) there is no "sizing material" involved and the wetting epoxies are handled in the normal manner which all of us are (or should be) aware of.

We don't want to take something that amounts to a very safe and easy process and make it sound like something very bad is going to happen to anyone who happens to touch the stuff. We could make the same argument about turning cork or wood, the dust of neither should be inhaled and could cause respitory problems if they are. Same with our graphite rod blanks which we obviously come into bare hand contact with. Making your own carbon fiber or composite skinned grips is not a dangerous endeavor at least any more than drinking a chemical laden soft drink is. But common sense should rule the day.

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If you were to grind or sand (releasing broken fibers into the air, less than 3 microns) then you would have a problem. Simply cross cutting to length shouldn't cause such a release.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

As mentioned above, I have a pre-existing condition which tends to make me a little leery of anything that might irritate my lungs. Having once contracted pleurodynia (a viral lung infection) I am now fairly prone to pleuritis. At least for me, pleuritis means about a week of extreme pain & discomfort. Even though I do wear a simple dust mask while turning cork, I am sure that over the years I’ve breathed in a good bit of the stuff, but it has never caused me any discomfort. Same goes for sanding/turning/boring the flexcoat arbor material and working with the various epoxy resins. But fiberglass insulation and ammonia based cleaning products on the other hand, are enough to set it off just by looking at it! Chances are I could work with this carbon/fiberglass material with proper precautions (legit respirator) and never have a problem. Then again, anyone who’s ever had to deal with pleuritis will tell you it isn’t a pleasant experience. At least for me, it’s not worth the risk for what’s basically just a hobby.

Still, I am definitely looking forward to what others will do with the technique. I’ve already got a 4lb kit of the urethane headed north from FL and will indeed be working with it and other covering options!

I am WAY more interested in the "other" options for covering the foam. I dont care much for the look of the carbon fiber, and I think there will be UNLIMITED things you'll be able to use on top of the foam and really make some unique handles.

DR

Joe,

You shouldn't have any problems with composite skins - there is no carbon dust, etc., to breathe in. I'm not an expert on your condition, but I'd think that unless you're having terrible problems with any graphite rod blanks you use, then these skins won't cause you any problem either.

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It is actually the fiberglass part of the mesh that has me most concerned, as I know from past experiences that the stuff & I just don't get along. If/when I do decide to try out the composite coverings, it will probably be the straight carbon mesh. For now I am going to attempt a few foam cores, some with flocking, Andy's exotic cork and/or holo wraps with some thick finish. That ought to keep me and my lungs happy for a good long time.

I understand. Even with the glass composite skins, however, there is no dust nor debris. This isn't that kind of product - not even remotely like glass insulation.

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Joe, I have a friend locally (yes I do have one or two friends...well, acquaintances anyway) who is a professional artist. His paintings sell quite well and his reputation is quite wide spread. His problem is that he has very serious allergic reactions to the paints and thinners he uses. Not good for an artist who paints for a living. But, he can't not paint. He has tried other occupations, but none really work for him...he simply has to paint.

He has tried every form of paint and thinner known and has even made some vegetable based pigments. He has some sort of problem with every one of them.

He solved this problem by constructing a sealed plexiglass cabinet large enough to hold his biggest canvas. The cabinet has a filtered air intake and a filtered air outlet that exhausts to the exterior of his house. It also has ample lighting and two access holes through which he inserts his arms and hands encased in protective rubber and gloves. The easel, paints, brushes, rags and thinners are all inside the cabinet. Problem solved.

Does this approach spark any ideas for those rod builders who suffer from reactions to the various products and materials we use?

Joe Douglas

If you're not having trouble with your fiberglass or graphite rod blanks, you won't have trouble with these sleeves.

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Tom, I certainly hope that you are right, cause eventually I will attempt to use the method described by Andy in RM. Thanks for putting the risk in perspective.

Now while I can understand the drive of the artist mentioned above and the extent he went to in order to be able to pursue his passion and vocation, for me rod building is no longer a means of making money. If I had to go through all that to build rods, chances are I'd just take the time/money and go fishing instead.

I would use the above mentioned precautions if you use a cut off saw on a graphite blank. Lots of dust there! I haven't tried it yet, but I think a good metal shears would cut the mesh.

A pair of kitchen scissors will cut the stuff listed in the article. There is no dust to deal with unless you plan to sand it.

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