Found Andy's article to be very interesting and decided to look up carbon sleeves and look what I found - check out the latest cover of RodMaker Magazine.

[www.solarcomposites.com]


Like Andy said the sleeves are rather inexpensive but I was wondering the initial costs for the foam and different epoxies?

I'm sure if you keep searching around, you'll provide us with a link with the cost of the foam & different epoxies.

I'm disappointed Andy left his favoritist grip in his closet instead of using it as teh centerpiece of teh cover shot, his Pink carbon fiber grip which he installed over a Fuji BRC Doorknob buttcap. Too bad there's no "winkie"s on this forum.

We've already done the looking for you - Solar is listed as a source in the second article's sidebar. They are good people to deal with although the website is a bit confusing in some ways.

Foam is very inexpensive, even less if you pour your own as in the second article. I'd have to go back and figure it up, but I doubt I have more than a half dollar in any core I've made to date. Perhaps even less.

Epoxy can get expensive. I prefer West Systems 207 which can run $150 for a gallon (you can buy smaller quantities - a quart is about $40). But, this procedure can be accomplished with other types of epoxies as well. Anything that will wet out the composite skin tends to work. Where you can run into problems is with products that aren't designed for long term exterior use. Many custom rod building thread wrap epoxies will work in this endeavor, but they will also get expensive for the amount needed. Epoxy is probably the most expensive part of this entire equation, but it still provides a grip that costs far less than top quality cork and yet trumps cork in at least several categories, durability and weight being two important ones.

Epoxy is only used for wetting out the composite skins although you can also top coat with it. Personally, I prefer Urethane for my top coat.

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And I was so busy torching and dipping graphite tubing into acetone and burning it again in order to shape it into a grip...darn near killed me it did!!!!! they make skinz????

You might also contact Andy and see what he's recommending for epoxy. Also, he tells me that he's going to offer cured foam turning stock if you don't want to pour your own.

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I just received this issue today. I'm very excited about it. Thanks Tom and Andy. I tried something like this years ago using metal hose braid for car engines. Looked cool, but wasn't terribly "formable". I never followed up on newer materials, mainly because I lost interest and never put in later effort.

Lesson to be learned here, never stop pushing the envelope, never stop trying to innovate, and never trash an idea just because something isn't available today. It might be later. Keep your ideas and revisit them every so often.

I can't wait to play with this stuff!

This stuff is going to be alot of fun to play with. Man, I got alot of ideas after reading the article today.

I just got my issue this afternoon and I'm already redesigning a few rods I have standing by as winter projects. From www.uscomposites.com I ordered resin epoxy, mold release, and enough foam to put me into cores up to my butt cap. These guys had the cloth material but they didn't have the sleeves. From www.sollercomposites.com I got a few varieties of the sleeves that should cover a dozen grips if I don't mess up too often. I also ordered a bunch of their treated shrink tubing for forming over the epoxied grip to get a smoother set ( I'll take any advantage I can get :)

Shooting myself for not subscribing at this point.....This thread sounds VERY interesting.....Pouring your own foam grips?.......Perhaps with unique customizable colors and even shapes?

Doing a different sort of fishing I guess...lol

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

The article hooked me too. Very well done Tom.

Jumped on the internet and ordered me a mit full as well. Website is very confusing - go down the left side to sleeving. After calling out there - they recommended the 50/50 carbon fiberglass blend. It is a 5 foot minimum order on the colored blends.

Needed to finish a rod for Christmas and kept thinking of that article.... almost done with a 3 color butt wrap and had it blow up on me. Bummer... ok to bed now.

If you try any of this, pay close attention to the article. People have been making composite tubing for many years and using these same materials, but none of them have been making composite fishing rod grips. There are some particulars that are quite different and you don't want to waste your supplies going through the learning curve that Andy and I did. You can benefit from our earlier mistakes and experiements by following the articles closely. The sidebar on page 19 has some tips you'll want to read.

I actually make my composite grips a bit differently than Andy makes his. But Andy has been working with the composite "skins" longer than I have so he penned the article on that portion of the subject. I've been working with the pour together foams longer so I did that portion. I use the shrink tube method on my skinned grips but Andy points out that it's not at all hard to burn and blister the skin/epoxy when using the shrink tube method, so he dropped that one a while ago and went with the method he outlined in the article. It should give the same results without the possibility of scorching your underlying epoxy. It also negates the need for a second top coat of epoxy in most cases.

The foam cores can be used in many ways - they can be painted, flocked (absolutely the best core for flocking possible) or cord wrapped. The article lists the best densities to use for various applications and a little goes a long way. They're not at all expensive. There are tips for turning and shaping them on page 19 and in a future issue I'll detail a semi-captive mold that I've been working with that will make turning unnecessary if you want to make multiples of each grip style.

We've only scratched the surface with these first two articles and I have no doubt that with the cat out of the bag many guys will come up with additional ways to utilize these products on custom fishing rods.

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Way back in my model building life we used to make our own fiberglass cowls for model airplanes. We used to make a plug out of balsa or foam, glue in a stick to allow holding in a vise, cover it with cling wrap, lay up the fiberglass, and then inflate a large toy balloon and press it down on the form, slowly letting the air out until the balloon is turned inside out over the piece. Let dry and peel the baloon off. Makes a pretty slick finish and reduces the amount of after-work. I think that would work on fishing grips as well.

Chuck

Probably. Try it and let us know. I assume the balloon takes the place of shrink tubing. However, I think this technique is a little quicker and easier.

By the way, balsa might make an excellent core material as well, since the composite skin on the outside would give it whatever resistance to denting or chipping is needed.

Another thing I forgot to mention here, is that the kevlar sleeving is somewhat difficult to work with. If you sand it prior to topcoating, you'll raise thousand of little "fuzzies" that are almost impossible to cover or get rid of. I like the all-carbon or carbon/glass composite materials. Don't go too small - you don't want the weave stretched or opened up where it will show the underlying core.

The entire process is really two independent systems. You can use the composite skins over many different core materials including EVA, cork, wood, etc. The urethane cores can be topcoated with various products such as paint, flock, cord, leather, etc. But the composite skins over the urethane cores results in about the lightest and most rigid grips you'll find anywhere.


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Ok......gleaning through the tidbits of wisdom and experience mentioned herein I gather that the urethane cores REQUIRE some sort of top coat for protection and crush resistance and are not suitable used in a raw form. However....I must ask again.....CAN THE URETHANE MATERIAL BE DYED.......It would take a builder a bit more savvy than me but the thought of a colored base urethane has visions of marbled and even tiger wrapped grips dancing in my head.


Do you see what I am getting at here or do I just need more coffee this morning?

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

The article covered all this.

You'll be hard pressed to crush the 6lb or 8lb foam with or without the skin. It's pretty darn hard. But you could chip or dent it if you whack it hard enough. The skin pretty much takes care of that, though.

The 10lb and 12lb foam is nearly hard as a rock. A hammer won't dent it. But as you start climbing the weight scale you begin to lose some of the weight advantage that this material offers.

It can be painted or dyed (while mixing), if you wish. But I haven't experimented with the various dyes or pigments to be able to tell you which would be best or most suitable. The foam is pretty darn inexpensive so you could do some experimenting with it along these lines without incurring too much expense. It is a closed cell material, however, so dying after the fact may not be possible. This also means that flocking it doesn't require sealing prior to applying the adhesive. Another plus in that regard.

There are probably a lot of things that can be done with the urethane core material. You'll just have to play with it and see what opportunities open up. Keep us informed.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 10:53AM by Tom Kirkman.

Andy or Tom, Question on whether or not you could use the carbon fiber sleeves to make your own TN handles exactly like what some of the component suppliers offer? How would the cost compare. Thanks.

Good Idea ken....you could install a Fuji plate reel seat and get a real clean looking handle

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

If all you want to do is just make TN handle tubes from carbon, glass or texalium, you can just follow the instructions on the Solar Composites website. It's pretty simple and allows you to make the tubing in a variety of colors and sizes and at far less expense than what you'll spend to buy stock tubing from any of the suppliers. However, that's in materials alone and doesn't take into account your time and effort. I got into this precisely because nobody offered shaped or contoured carbon fiber grips. If all I wanted was a straight tube, I'd have stuck to just buying that from one of the sponsors.

If you do make your own tubes, you can form them over aluminum pipe (remember the release agent) and then remove them and mount with whatever you normally use for arbors. Or... turn or mold a urethane cylinder core and form the tube that way. leaving the foam inside to serve as a full length arbor. Done that way, I'd use the 4lb foam to reduce weight as much as possible. Such a tube would still be lighter than a cork TN handle.

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There is a picture of a Tennessee handle in the story. I plan to make mine a split grip with about 5-6 inches of grip, rounded on each end, and a separate butt grip. That should be similar to how I do it now with a single contoured cork ring on each side of an 18mm reel seat. Wrap a Mag frame reel on it Vibronics style and I can’t imagine a lighter way to build a spinning rod.

That is one of the beauties of the system, people will be very creative and build shapes that you probably never even thought of. If you look at the pics that I posted of a mold I designed someone will tool up to build the grips in production, they should be very inexpensive to manufacture.

Mike;
Interesting that you should mention "Wrap a Mag frame reel on it Vibronics style"
I am in the process of dong that right now