I am building a 1201L and want to get your opinion on the guide layout.

I was going to use these guides fuji BHVLG 50 30 20 12 10 8 8 8 8 and the tip

My layout is like this starting from the tip in MM 100, 210, 330, 460, 600, 760, 980, 1325, 1740

The reel seat is 600MM from the but to the front hood of the seat

I am puting a VS 250 on the rod. The rod will be used for pencil popping and larger plugs

Does this sound correct or what should I change.

That looks like too many big guides to me. I have an old PSB1202L (Lami's Perigee line) set up conventional and not spinning. I just can't see it being matched with a huge reel. I also have a 13' rod set up for light spinning in the surf. It has 12 guides, but it steps down more quickly - VS3 30, 20, 10; then size 8 fly guides out to the tip; although the old Penn spinning reel I use is admittedly much smaller than the VS250. Does Fuji even make anything higher than the BHVLG40? And if so, do you really need it?

Read the article on the New Guide Concept in the online library here. You can likely eliminate one or two of those in-between sizes.

A #50 guide is awfully large unless you're using a huge reel. What is the diameter of the reel spool and what size and type line are you going to be using?

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Vincent...

The guides are waaaay too big. I just built a 14' surf rod and used 30-20-10-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8 and can cast 4 oz all the way down to my neibors house. About 90 yards. Make sure you get the first guide spacing distance from the reel spot on though.

Paul

The Van Staal VS 275 has a spool diameter of 2.75". A good rule of thumb is to use a Butt Guide about 1/2 the diameter of the spool.. so a size 50 (about 2" dia.) is unnecessarily large. A size 40 would be better. Remember.. by placing the ring so that the line just touches the outer top edge will provide a good flow. A smaller ring on higher legs is an improvement over a larger ring on lower legs. Trapping the line into a narrower ring will reduce drag from there on out. This is one of the benefits of the New Concept Guide System. It provides a distinct weight advantage and reduced drag... both less wind drag on the guides and line drag from a tamer line flow. I believe casting accuracy goes up as a result of the line running closer to the blank. I have heard some say that the system is not so important on surf rods but I definitely notice an improvement on mine.

Dave

Dave...

Excellent point about the spool diameter/first guide relationship-I think that is a major factor as well.

Paul

Vince, the only time I've ever used a size 50 guide was on a surf bait slinger that was matched to an Alvey 700C5 reel, which is hige -- it's seven inches across, or about the size of a small dinner plate. Even then, I was tempted to use a 40. For a VS 250, 50, in my opinion, is way too big. I'd start testing with a 30 and a 40, and see which works better (if you can't tell a difference when casting, go with the smaller guide).

Tom's right: read the New Concept article in the library here. But if it helps, here's what I'd do if I were building your spinner:

- locate the choke guide
- locate the butt guide (this is preliminary and temporary; test casting will determine where it is). For a rod this size, you can start somewhere in the 23-24 inch range.
- your running guides on this rod will be size 8, which sounds about right. From the choker to the tip top, run as many 8s as you need, spaced four or five inches apart.
- Run three or four transition guides from the stripper to your first running guide. On a rod like this, I'd probably start with something like 40-20-16-10, and then as many 8s as you need.
- go out and test cast with this setup. Move the stripper up and down the rod and see how casting is affected. On a surf rod like this, I'd move the stripper as far as six inches fore and aft to see how casting is affected (you're not likely to move it more than an inch or two either way, but extra testing won't hurt), and make sure to find the spot where the stripper produces the best casts.
- when you find the stripper guide location where casting is best, remove the stripper, and try one size larger, and one size smaller. Move these around, too; in about 20 minutes or so, you'll have learned what size guide casts best, and where the best location for it is. You may want to do some testing with even more sizes than just one up and down from where you started -- keep experimenting if your results warrant it.

Now your butt guide location and size are set, as is your choker. All you need to do then is do a static distribution test, set your guide array, and do a few insurance test-casts (just to make sure your final array will cast just the way you want it to). Then wrap it and finish it.

Configuing the guides a spinning rod properly, especially when you're starting from scratch, is a heck of a lot of work, certainly much more than copying a spacing chart out of a book or from a website. If you're like me, you'll get to the point where wrapping and finishing seem to be the easiest thing in the world, because compared to figuring out your guide array they are. But the work is worth it -- if you don't believe me now, you will when you finish the first spinner you took the time to do correctly. Resist the urge to take a shortcut (which, if you're anything like me, you're certain to get), and I think you'll be VERY pleased with the end result.

And don't be worried about doing things that are not the way rods are "supposed" to be built -- if you take your time, use common sense, and let your results guide you, you're almost guaranteed to end up with a superior product. Good luck.

great rod, it gets maxed out at 3 oz lures my set up is 750ss ( same spool diam as vs 250) or 650ss 40 ,25,16 ,10,10,10,10,12 , but guide 31 1/2" from spool face, 22 1/2 " from butt to middle of reel foot

Sorry for not posting back I had some computer problems. Thanks for all the great info; I have ordered a new set of guides for the rod. I ordered BMNAG Guides 40, 30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10 and 5 8's. This way I have enough to see what size works best. I also got a copy of the article you suggested. I will try laying it out with this method and post back with what I end up doing.