Ever since I found this site and had the pleasure of giving some personal instruction to another beginning
builder whom I met here I've had this dream of starting a regular rodcrafting class. I found that I enjoyed teaching even more than I enjoyed building. That idea of a class has blossomed into a full blown college or trade school type environment. A place where one could go to get personal one on one instruction from the finest builders within there disciplines. A place where the top craftsmen in the industry would be unrestricted and could teach as they see fit. Everything that the instructors and students needed would be provided. Lathes, wrappers, components, blanks, workstations, audio visual equipment, THE WORKS!

Now, in a perfect world all of this would be provided free of charge and in some cases it already is.
Seminars like those at the ICRBE and many of the industry professionals already are very happy to help someone along with some personal one on one instruction and all one has to do is call ahead of time and come by their shop. Time permitting of course. However, what I'm thinking of is far more intensive
and obviously a tuition would be paid by the students for the use of the facility and fees to be paid to the instructors for travel expenses, logging, and their most valuable time & knowledge. Besides, a student would be far less likely to be disruptive in a classroom if they shelled out a nice chunk of change to be there!

Maybe form a business standpoint, something like this would not be possible or self sustaining for very long. I don't know. Heck, maybe this is just a pipe dream and would take someone with far more business savvy than what I posses to pull off. However, If someone were to put something like what I prescribe together, how many of you would be interested in attending or instructing classes?

Thoughts or suggestions?

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

It would be great if it could be pulled off! Don't have any idea if there would be enough support, but I'd love to see it happen and would dfinately be interested in being involved

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Raymond,

What you speak of here has been fully outlined in an earlier issue of RodMaker - volume 5 #2.

The idea is based on something such as the "Penland School of Crafts."

It could be done and with the right people involved could be a viable endeavor.

My only recommendation is not to base to0 much on responses you get from any internet forum, including this one - this isn't where the bulk of such students would come from. The internet is wonderful in many regards, but in so very many cases and as Jim Cabela told me not long ago - it is rife with "tire kickers."

....................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2007 08:21PM by Tom Kirkman.

Thanks Tom,
Alas, that back issue is sold out. Been wanting to order that volume's CD but will have to wait till
after the holidays. For sure it is on plate though.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond~

Very interesting idea! I would defiantly participate as long as it was worth my time to do so. I don't necessarily mean that I would have to be paid to do it, just that there would be something in it for me! I, like you, enjoy teaching more than actually building. I think that as long as there was a continued interest then it would be a novel idea. Maybe a call to Joe D. at RBI might give you some ideas to ponder while pigging out this holiday season! Keep us updated if things look like they get off the ground!

John

Hi Raymond,

Lessons we learned from the Sydney Rod Builders Club:

- We met monthly - this proved to be a little too often.
- People paid a token amount each visit to cover hire of the room.
- We advertised initially by doing a pamphlet drop at local tackle stores, thereafter on the internet thru various chat boards. The letter drop was by far the most effective method.
- We targeted anyone with an interest in building, from total beginners to professionals.
- The purpose of the meetings had to be communicated carefully. Many indicated they wouldn't come because they didn't know enough about building, whereas they were the ones we wanted to attend so as to expand interest in the craft.
- A team of organisers was required rather than 1 or 2 dedicated individuals.
- Ad-hoc meetings held at infrequent intervals (such as the NERBS do now, and the occasional Rod Building Weekend held here in Brisbane) are a way of keeping each event fresh.

I feel paid classes might have been succesful if organised through a recognised educational venue (such as a TAFE college). Setting up with the equipment might be costly depending on numbers planning to cater for.

Our "club" environment and demographic may differ from what you have in mind, however I'm happy to share our experiences in case you see some parallels and gain value from them.

Regards
Dave Boyle
www.visualwrap.com

Ray,
If you want to teach a course I would suggest you contact a local adult education institution. Many Community Colleges offer night time non-credit adult education courses in a very wide range of subjects and might find a course on rod building an interesting subject. Likely all you would need to do is present a curriculum to the administration and have sufficiently simple 'hands on" tools and supplies.

Take the bull bull by the horns and just do it.

Give it a go, Ray.

I teach rod building classes and have done for about 25 years.

I will not do the adult ed thing again. Because there are too many people required for the course..

I simply cannot get around 10 or 12 people and give them the attention they deserve.

I now do 4 at a time. This is a good number and I have enough gear to make it easy.

My classes are introduction only. I choose the rod to be built and buy 5 of everything. I charge the participants for all they use. I do not charge a fee for my time. Mainly because many students become customers and they buy through me. Not that I expect that. My aim is to get people building their own rods.

How it happens now is word of mouth, previous participants or even customers will spread the word. It is irregular, I have only done 2 this year with one in the pipeline which probably won't happen till after Christmas

Go for it. It does work and will not take long for the word to spread. The first one could be your mates or offer something to one of the locakl fishing clubs.

GOOD LUCK

I fish therefore I am.
www.hookeduprods.com

I'm of the opinion of Mr. Joyce. Just do it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, you'll have had fun giving it a go and trying. Offer the classes, don't expect much, but what interest you get, give it your all. Be worth it to them and rewarding to you.

Good idea Raymond. You strike me as a person who can think outside the box and pull somethng like this off and make a go of it.

Run with it and I will support and assist if I can.

Terry

Why don't you talk with Joe @ RBI. I don't know how many more organizations, forums, clubs, etc. that the rod building community can support. There are MANY advantages to pooling resources and they should be examined IMO.

On a personal note ... I just loved college the first three times and I look forward to it.

Our Local Vo Tech teaches a Coarse twice a year at night. I have taken it twice (91-02) cost of the coarse was about $76.00 and we had to get our own Blank, Guides,Grips. Which we could get thru the instructor at cost. Had about two weeks of hands on instruction before we started on our rods. Built our rods part by part butt grip, seat , fore grips, then on to guides,ETC. It ran 10 weeks 2-2 1/2 hours each.

Jim,


You have just spelled out exactly why so many of these ventures and endeavors fail - they rely on the rod building industry and community to "support" them. That won't work. It never has and it never will. You have to go about it the other way around.

My ventures work in reverse; they support the industry and the rod building community instead of relying on the industry and community to support them. That's the difference. This site makes money for the industry. The magazine and the ICRBE make money for the industry. And this site, magazine and ICRBE offer the builders a tremendous value either in outright freebies or in information and services that far outweigh the tiny subscriber or admission fee involved. Nobody supports what I'm doing - I support them by making available ventures that are truly viable. But in order to do that, I had to reach into my pocket and spend my money (and I'm still spending it) in order to make them viable. I didn't wait on donations or subsidization from the industry or the builders - that just doesn't work if you really want something that is going to benefit the masses.

I could make a money a lot of money for myself if I wanted to just by a slight change up - I could take the ICRBE, put it in a free room at the Radisson (that they’ve already offered me) and jack the admission price up to $100 a head. I could turn the reception door prize give away into a raffle and sell tickets in order for you to win something. I could stop paying my seminar presenters. Neither the industry nor the rod builders would support such a thing to any great degree nor should they be expected to. But I'd still get about 15 vendors and 150 or so attendess and I’d put between $15,000 and $20,000 in my own pocket. Not bad at all from a personal financial perspective.

Now compare that to last year’s ICRBE with over 40 vendors and 2200 attendees, a $25,000 exhibit facility, an $8 admission fee and free door prizes where I made a grand total of $800 for all my time and trouble (and $40,000 investment). But we got the industry and the rod builders together, tons of them, and I feel confident in saying that a great time was had by all. And custom rod building now has an internernational event that is on par with those in woodworking and knifemaking and other similar crafts.

That’s the crux of anything anybody does in this comparatively small craft - in order to make anything work, you have to spend your own money and make a commitment to what you say you’re going to do. To hold your hand out and expect everybody else to fund what you’re doing just doesn’t work very well, and yet, that’s how most people go about things (I’m considered a bad guy by a few people who offer rod building products or services and who refuse to buy a sponsorship here. In their minds I’m a bad guy because I won’t use my money to fund their advertising).

I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t make money, but either way anyone that is going to get involved in any of these type endeavors has to reach into their own pocket and make that investment. I’ve sent Raymond the article from Volume 5 #2 for his consideration. It would work - it has worked in other crafts like woodturning, furniture making, knifemaking, etc. But whoever starts it will have to be willing to fund it and commit to it, full time. They will have to support the industry and the rod building community, not the other way around.

....................

By the way, I don't think Raymond is talking about simple rod building classes. Unless I'm badly mistaken, he's thinking much deeper than that and is in tune with what I wrote about earlier - a full fledged rod building college of sorts where students enroll for weekly intensive training in any aspect of custom rod building. Check out the Penland School of Crafts for more on this idea - [www.penland.org]

..................



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 02:26PM by Tom Kirkman.

Thanks guys,
YES! I will be doing a class or classes next year. I have my eye on a local community center and also an orginization formed by a former NFL player who's goal it is to help dads connect with their sons. What better way to help "at risk" dads and sons do something together that they can share for the rest of their lives. I already have some of the
materials & componants together and it shouldn't be to long before I have eveything I need to give a class for 5 pairs of fathers & sons (10 students).

However, Tom is correct. My post is not about a simple class. It's about a full blown College. Buildings would have to be aquired and filled with all the equipment required
and fully staffed. Classes from basic wrapping to advanced blank design and construction would be offered and taught by respected industry leaders within their disciplines. The Penland Craft School is a very good example of what I'm talking about.

Tom,
Thank you very much for the article. Ya know, I have not been very financially successful in my life and at the moment all I have is passion. However, maybe passion is the very thing that's need most to get something like this going. A little education, the right busines plan, some creative financing and this could be done. The more I think about it I know, "If I build it they will come!"

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I have been teaching rodbuilding for over 25 years with formal classes in basic rod building as well as
thread art . I teach a 6 - week class with a class fee of $ 35.00 plus the cost of materials. Students can
build any type of rod they wish. I have always had a complete shop and have used it for the classes
thruout. I used to take up to 10 students at a time for each class and have a waiting list all year long.
I would teach 2 nites a week and take a week break between classes. I have dropped the class size
to a max of 5 students. Unfortuneately now I am lucky to get enough inquiries to set up one class a year.
I have gone the route with the community colleges to no avail. Due to regional restrictions they usually want classes taught on campus and at least in my case wanted to much on their end.
My own opinion is that rod building classes need to be taught hands on with complete access to the
necessary tools.
I love teaching the craft but am troubled by the drop in interest on the other end. My original shop
was in Chicago and my present location is in the south burbs so the " potential student body" is
out there. But times are changing particularily in large metropolitan areas. Too much pressure from
other things. I am well aware of the interest on this board. But it is different to sit in front of a computer
vs. actually getting out and getting involved. I have customers who complain about driving 5 miles to the store.

The idea of a college for rodbuilding is intriguing and would no doubt be a boon for the craft but
the obstacles and logistics are mind bogling.
One of the most important things about our craft is the individual talent that it nurtures. I have always
told my students that my class is based on how I build rods but that there are many different approaches
to the end result . That is why custom rod building is a craft and not a science.
I sincerely hope that something along this line takes off, it would be a lot of work but fun.
I definitely would enjoy being a part of it.
Tom Cooney

Didn't someone teach a college course on Rod Building at Penn State? I swore I read that a while back.

Thomas,

You're right - the obstacles and logistics would be mind boggling. But so too were the obstacles and logistics for the ICRBE. Remember, no rod building event in history had ever garnered more than about 175 attendees. Most brought in far less than 100. Same with the magazine - no way that a subscriber based, full sized magazine devoted to custom rod building could be successful.

My point, is that all too often folks base their decisions on what to do based on what others haven't done or haven't been able to do. This is where the rod building craft falls miserably short of the woodworking and knifemaking crafts. There aren't enough people of vision and committment to take the risk to do these things. The few who do most often put their hand out and wait for "support" from the industry or the builders. That won't work.

The thing is, there is a lot of potential in this craft for things we've not yet had or even thought about. But to do them folks will have to commit time and money and rely on something other than the internet for their marketing and advertising.

.................

Some clubs do offer rod building classes - the nearest one to me is in Paoli, PA (by Valley Forge) Tri-State Rodbuilders. They charge $100/class (plus components) that consists of three consecutive Saturday classes. They wrote to me asking if I would mind taking on three to five students who are located closer to me. Of course I agreed - my only 'issue' is space. I can do seminar style for as many as want to listen - but I can only have two people working in my shop simultaneously. I have three rod wrapping lathes set up plus a bamboo rod planing station but it just gets too crowded if three people are working at the same time.

Ray maybe you should consider a move to North Carolina and ask the lady to add one more craft class - rodbuilding! Looks like the facilities and organizational skills are in place at Pen World. Then after it was up and running and had a successful Rod @#$%& of Completed Works then Tom could raise his ICRBE to $ 350 and everyting would then be equitable.