Hi all,

today I went fishing with my new custom rod I just finished this week.
St Croix IV 7H blank cut to 6'9" with Amtak TITAN guides from Mudhole, straight EVA handle and C-Blue real seat from Matagi.

The rod cast great and is really nice looking.
That's my third rod and I'm really happy with it.

On a quite strong cast, the line twisted around the 5th guide so it broke and my lure went faaaaaaar away.
The guide was bended straight along the blank so I thought "no problem, I will bend it back to its initial position".
The guide bend back, but it just broke.

I'm really sad to end my fishing day like that, and I don't think that guide should have broke so easylly.

What do you think guys about that ? Had any similar experience with Titan guides ?

Thanks, and tight lines !
Pierre

That doesn't sound right. I have had that happen to my guides and i bend them back slowly and they haven't broken. I know that they prob. can only go through that once or twice before they break, but the first time is no good. However, im not familiar with that particular guide metal. It could possibly be designed to be stronger to resist initial bending, but if something is strong enough to bend it, then it's really game over. Call mudhole. they might hook you up with a replacement guide. Then just get a torch, carefully melt your finish over the thread and scrape off with a dull plastic knife, cut thread, re-wrap. good luck

Matt

I used to fish a little, but a little wouldn't do it, so a little got more and more.

Yes, the Titans are one form of titanium. All forms of titanium may not be resistant to extreme cyclic bending without chance of failure. Exposure to certain chemicals will increase the chance of failure. Fluoride ions, contained in water, at very low levels or chemicals used to etch the surface can cause cracking The Titan was not designed for cyclic bending like a limited number of titanium or chrome nickle alloys. Even the titaniums have limitations.

use a lighter not a torch.

use a lighter not a torch.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Finish won't melt, the blank will! WARM the finish with a lighter or heat gun (keep it moving- the blank and the heat) Use a razor blade to shave the finsh and thread off along the TOP of the guide foot so as not to cut into the blank, You should then be able to just unwrap the thread

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Ti is an unusual metal to cut, machine, extrude, weld, stamp or form.
Amtak does not expect their guides to go supersonic or survive re-entry therfore, the Ti alloy used in Amtak guides is chosen for its manufacturing properties and not with the next space launch in mind.
Heat treat? Work Hardening? Improper anneal? Hydrogen imbrittlement? Who Knows.
I have used them in the past.
I use Fuji now.

I think there is a misconception about titanium. It isn't as strong as a lot of other guide materials....it's just lighter. I think the media has it ingrained in people's minds that it's virtually indestructable but that certainly isn't the case. If you want strength, there are better materials. If you need light weight or corosion resistance, Ti is the way to go.

David Rogers said "Titanium isn't as strong as other materials"

You got it wrong about Titanium. For a given size, as shown below :

1) Titanium is 280/490 = 0.57 = 57% the weight of steel.

2) Titanium is approximately the same strength as steel (40 - 120) v.s. (46 - 162)


Titanium Yield Point = (40 - 120)
Steel Yield Point = (46 -162)

Titanium Specific Gravity = 280
Steel Specific Gravity = 490


Rena

Titanium guides are not indestrucible. Just because a certain Ti alloy is bendable doesn't mean that all of them are. Same as there are spring steels and brittle steels. The biggest pro of titanium is the inert factor. It doesn't corrode.

Titans are wonderful for corrosion resistance. That's what they were designed for (plus the light weight). Nobody ever claimed that they were elastic. Ever. Where did you hear that Titans could be bent and shaped to your whim? Titans are not Recoils. Huge difference in materials.

Rena Hall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David Rogers said "Titanium isn't as strong as
> other materials"
>
> You got it wrong about Titanium. For a given
> size, as shown below :
>
> 1) Titanium is 280/490 = 0.57 = 57% the weight
> of steel.
>
> 2) Titanium is approximately the same strength as
> steel (40 - 120) v.s. (46 - 162)
>
> Titanium Yield Point = (40 - 120)
>
>
> Steel Yield Point = (46 -162)
>
> Titanium Specific Gravity = 280
>
>
> Steel Specific Gravity = 490
>
>
> Rena

I guess it depends how you look at it. My grandfather and my father have owned and run a machine shop since 1953. I discussed this with my father and yield point isn't the only basis of strength. You can have steel that is almost as hard as a diamond but it will be too brittle to use as a guide. You can have spring steel that will bend 1000 times before it breaks. There are certain grades of stainless steel that have a higher yield point and are stronger than titanium...at a considerable weight disadvantage. You also have to take into account that those guides are NOT pure titanium but an alloy containing titanium.

I'm not trying to cause an argument or heated discussion. There are quite frankly too many varibles to make an accurate assesment of the guides and their strengths/weaknesses without knowing alot more about their alloy composition. My point was just the fact that the media uses titanium as a catch phrase today. Even my razor blades are supposed to be better because of Ti. A bunch of hoohaa if you ask me.

Just my 2¢.

Thak you guys for all the answers and the tips to remove the wrap, it worked well with a lighter.

Well, maybe I'm a sucker but both Fuji and Amtak say that Ti guides are lighter and stronger than guides with stainless steel frames.

I know a guide just CAN'T be indestrucible but I never broke a "standard" guide in about 25 years fishing.
That's why I think that guide shouldn't have broke so easylly, on the first bend.

Anyway, does someone think that Fuji Ti are better than Amtak Titan ?

Thanks again,
Pierre

I would say that you somehow may have gotten a bad guide I have used them often and have never had one break but, then again, I have never bent one either.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Anyway, does someone think that Fuji Ti are better than Amtak Titan ?


Yes. As a rule of thumb that is usually pretty true. You get what you pay for.

Bryan I think the exception to your rule is "If you are paying for the brand name" you could end up with the wrong thing. Case in point Fuji Alconite Fly Guides to be used on top of a fast action casting rod.

Hi Guys,

The Titan guides are made of a Titanium Alloy and ounce per ounce stronger than SS...........but they are not as elastic. So while you may be able to bend a SS guide back into place when flattened on a blank you may not be able to do that with a titanium guide. You are talking about a Ferrari here. This is a high performance guide designed not to corrode and be half the weight of its equivalent in SS. They are not as durable as SS in regard to bending and straightening.

Bryan Thompson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, does someone think that Fuji Ti are better
> than Amtak Titan ?
>
>
> Yes. As a rule of thumb that is usually pretty
> true. You get what you pay for.

Bryan don't believe the old adage here. This is not rocket science. I would venture to say Fuji punches out the same titanium we do. They punch and epoxy the rings in just like we do. Our Nanolite ring is stronger and almost as hard as SiC and it weighs less. We wanted to price our Titan's like Fuji's stainless steel/SiC guides. We priced them so it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive to use. Although there are limitations we think they are the finest guide on the planet and you don’t need to spend a weeks pay to get them.

Pierre send me your info and the guide model number and I'll send you a replacement.

Warmest regards, Joe Meehan, Ameican Tackle

Warmest Regards,

Joseph F Meehan III
American Tackle Co. Inc
Ph: +1-508-957-2164
Toll Free: 1-888-516-1750
Cell: +1-508-364-3770
Fax: +1-508-957-2165
Toll Free Fax: 1-800-966-9430
email: joe@americantackle.us
Web Site: [americantackle.us]

Joe,
that does make sense.

But how to understand "stronger" ? Bending would be not as easy as on a SS guide ?

Something like fiber glass vs graphite.
Figer glass will not be as strong, but under stress (bending), graphite will break first.

Anyway, I will try the Fuji on my next build to see if they are worth the money.

Pierre

Like a high modulus fiber it is stronger but far more brittle. Our SS A-Frames are far stronger than the same in Titanium but they are twice the weight. If you had the equivalent weight in titanium the titanium guide would be stronger. If you are looking for durabilty over performance Titanium is NOT the way to go. There are bullet proof guides out there but they a lot heavier and they may rust over time. That is the trade off.