Hey Everyone,

I guess this question is to Tom Kirkman. Tom, have you ever thought about having a “Rod Build-Off”? You know like the Biker Build-Offs that were real popular on TV. I think it would be cool to see the results from all the “masters” on this board. It could be set that a particular rod/blank be chosen to build. It would be a challenge to even the pros because say a surf rod is chosen. Well one guy could be a great surf rod builder where as the other is great at fly rods (and vice versa). It would challenge each competitor in different aspects of rod building. I guess you could do a selection based on appearance, casting distance, over all feel, fishabiliy, ect. The stats could be based on the same reel and line being used between both rods. You could even have the first build off at the ICRBE and have the audience choose the winner. Who knows maybe it could become a show on Versus. Man… that would be COOL! It sure would help get more interest in the custom rod industry (look what those biker build offs did for custom motorcycles).

I think it would be a LOT of fun, but I dont' know how many people would participate as ego's might be shattered. Not to mention the amount of politics tha twould end up being introduced.

I'll bite. I have no ego to be shattered. Or, looked at another way, I've got so much ego that it wouldn't matter. Besides, last apprentice among masters is better than not playing at all.

But we get to choose our own stuff, once the blank is set. Sort of like the "Iron Chef"'s secret ingredient and then have at it.

Timeframe might be a bit tight. Maybe start it on Friday?

Meanwhile, don't forget to drop by Sat afternoon and wrap a guide foot on our 2008 "community" demo rod. Team efforts are welcome, but one foot per team. Unless someone has a better suggestion, this will be a 7' 1pc spinning, saltwater trout rod with a dbl-ft stripper and around 7 or or 8 more sgl ft guides plus the tip. That'll give us around 11 wraps (including the tip). No limit on colors, thread selection or brand, style, etc. Sort of like a patchwork quilt.

The suggestions for the butt wrap are sort of open but it has to be kept short in order to leave room for all the names. That's also why I figured a flyrod would be too small in diameter (unless we did a 15wt.)

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Only a small handful of the folks who use this board attend the ICRBE. It would have to be staged through the magazine in order to really get much participation at the event. Not only that, but I'm just much too busy to put anything else on my plate. Thanks for the suggestion but I'll have to respectfully decline.

...............

By chance….any sponsors interested? It could be the 2008 “your company name here” Custom Rod Build-Off!

Those shows really created a huge market for custom bike builders. 20 years ago that was a very niche market. Most people did not know that market even existed, except for the hard core enthusiast. These small niche builders literally became celebrities to people who have never even rode a motorcycle.

Now instead of a basic Harley everyone wanted a “custom bike”. Most of them sold for around $25-45K. After one of the builders bikes won, they were fetching $100k+ for their bikes. For the winners it would be a nice hanging (trophy and bragging rights) on the wall in their shop showing they won.

It also helped create a lot of new ideas between the builders that made their products even more interesting. Nothing like challenging a masters.

Harold!!!

Absolutley an OUTSTANDING idea!!! Kudos for thinking out of the box!

Paul

We had considered doing this same thing through another internet site last year. It was just the logistics and all that really started to become an issue. Our idea was to then offer a production version of the winning rod in the following years catalog.

Having the ICRBE to do the judging and stuff would make it easier to accomplish.

Todd

Regards,
Todd Vivian
Mud Hole Custom Tackle

todd@mudhole.com

I doubt another website or another event would have enough people to really get you any decent level of participation. This site and the ICRBE would be taylor made for this sort of thing because of the huge number or people involved. But I can see how Tom has enough on his plate already. Maybe one of the blank manufacturers could head it up or even one of the dealers. Shouldn't be too hard to display some rods and have a public voting box in the booth??? Might be a nice advertising plug for a smart business that plans to exhibit at the ICRBE. Give it some thought.

Part of the problem of doing it at the show is while it would be great for people to look at them and judge on appearance.

But it would be hard to judge them on a performance level, no real place to be casting them and no place to hook and fight fish to see how they perform

And then if they could be tested you would have to have people to police things so something didn't get broke or walk off.

There are only a very very few builders that I know of who posses the talent to truly enter a "Build Off"
compared to the Discovery Channel stuff and really pull it off. To really do it right would take a LOT
of connections and a LOT of $$ and it would not be fair to limit the builders to just one type of rod
or any specific blank.
A Terry Henson or Ray Carver fly rod could very easily compete with a Doc Ski or Jim Upton tuna stik!
Now we have all seen what these guys can do without any special motivation but give them the time
and $$$ to really push the envelope! Matching engraved seats and roller guides (gold plated), intricate
weaving on multiple axis, Jurassic park bugs set in amber inlay-ed in mammoth ivory installed on a hand
planed bamboo blank wrapped with natural worm silk and hand bent guides.
All one off components specially made of the finest metals found on earth hand cut and polished.
1000's of dollars and 1000's of hours invested.
I would love to see such rods myself but..
What for though? The only ones who could afford to buy one would be Bill Gates or the Sheik of Saudi Arabia
and no builder wants to see one of there rods just hung above the mantle in an alarmed case.

I agree with Russ, after 35 years of rod building I have no ego left. I am learning every day and would be not be unhappy to come last in this type of comp.

I don't think Raymond has the right idea. I assume the comp would be to build the best FISHING TOOL in the time allowed. Not the fanciest one.

Really great idea. Lots of fun in this idea. No loosers as everyone would show their personal build methods and ideas. That is what we are Individuals

Cheers to this one.
Paul

I fish therefore I am.
www.hookeduprods.com

If you just want to see such rods, come to the ICRBE - those type rods are already there. Not as part of a competition, but just for your viewing pleasure. And there will be even more of them this year.

...............

Paul,
I'll concead that a compitition could be held where "fancy" would be of little or no concideration to the judges
and points be assigned by function alone to arrive at "the best tool". However, the best tool for one is not
always the best tool for another and would be highly subjective. Not much compitition there unless one narrows
the focus down to a needle point.

That being said, now where do you go? One might then concider "design aspects". Surely, designs like Steve Garner's
"Vibronics" rod or Bill Colby's "Bumper Spiral" or Bill Stevens's "Threadless Wraps" could be concidered but all of these
have already introduced. Nothing new here now. One might be able to concider just how well one USED those techniques!
Uhmm?? Maybe a vibroncs rod with threadless wraps in a bumper spiral config??

However, Howard mentioned specificly, the Discovery Channel's Biker Build-Off. Those guys are all about function ofcourse
but FANCY is the goal as well as function. Parts are custom designed and cut by hand, C&C machines, etc.. No ordering from
catalogs for them!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I believe such an event would be a terrific idea, but this could turn into a sort-of a "Stand Alone Event", with vendors and manufacturers also participating. But, to be totally fair to custom rod builders, the rods should be built by various catagories, not just everyone be forced into building one type of rod. it would not be fair at all to force a fly only builder into building a stand up rod or a bass builder only having to build a fly rod. There should be several catagories that each builder would be able to enter into and perfect the rod in that realm. Bass rods, saltwater - inshore, surf & standup, fly rods, etc. Then there is also the issue of building to a perfomance level or building for astectics. Judging the astectics or beauty of a rod is easier to do, versus the perfromance level of rods. When judging just the beauty of a rod you simply view the rods and make a decision. When judging the performance level of rods, of which I think is the number "1" of importance, each and every rod would have to be cast and fished by each and every judge. How long will that take?? How will you choose a location to judge the performance level of a inshore saltwater, saltwater surf, stand-up saltwater, fly rod, bass rod, etc., on & on, under actual usage conditions?? Great idea, but appears to me as a several day event to try and crown a champion in all these areas of custom rod building, when dealing with the "Performance Level" of rods in many different catagories. Which the different catagories of rods being built, would be the only way to be fair to all builders. Great idea brought forth, but a lot of work and undertaking for several folks. The who is going to fund such an event? Takes a lot of money to pull off something of this size. How will you make that investment back? Will custom builders travel and spend money for all the expenses it will take to attend such a contest? Will they take home any prize money for doing so, to help off-set the expenses or just go home with a plaque and pride? Who is going to fork out the prize money, if there is going to be any? See now, what you fellows get into when you get my darn ole mind to thinking about such projects!!

Bob McKamey -- Custom Tackle Supply

I agree with Bob McKame of Custom Tackle Supply. There should be several categories to make things fair to all. The rods should be judged both artistically and for functionality. What about the amateurs? The contest should be incorporated into the ICRBE, but not take away from the event. I believe it will only add to the event and bring people in. Since Tom has a full plate, I believe a committee should be formed. You could have entrance fees and/or sponsorship by vendors to raise money. To hang a plaque in your place of business translates into dollars.

I guess you might be able to incorporate a charge into entrance of a rod if you wanted to be able to purchase a plaque - or if you wanted a cash prize then you would need to elevate the entry cost. As far as functionality - I don't know that a custom bike is driven to determine the winner - as others stated, it may just have to be a case of judging the rod by eye on it's innovations and ingenuity - I know that without fishing it we would only be covering part of what custom builders do - but even though I have never made a birch bark handle yet - I can surely appreciate the beauty it holds. As others stated - it would raise the level of the bar for the rest of us to see some of the best work out there... and would surely be an attaboy for the winner. Why not just chose one type of rod per year - those who are skilled at building rods can surely rise to the occasion and perhaps build outside of there area of comfort - kind of like Billy's challenge. It would develop some out of the box developments and innovations I would sure enjoy seeing and hearing about... Just my 2 cents, Chuck Ungs

It would be alot of fun.... IF people kept it fun and not a competition. Three catagories? FW, SW, Fly? Keep it simple...one?

Who's the ultimate Judge on functionality OR artistic immpression OR ingenuity?..the builders themselves that come to the show, the builders that enter,...rodbuilding peers attending ICRBE.
( I'd probablly vote on a rod that looks cool or classy in my opinion...where others attending may pick a rod strickly on how it feels in hand, knowing just by looking at it that it would cast just fine based on the set up and rodbuilding experience...in their opinion)

Three racks...three fish bowls to cast votes in each catagory...and three shmucks to tally the votes. One fish bowl?

The best reward of trying this would be the rods themselves..for others to get ideas from, learn from, etc....everyone wins!!!!!

For those that get the most votes?...results printed in RodMaker, maybe a photo shot? And the glory of it all untill the following years "event".lol.
Whats needed? Racks, space, paper/pencils, and a fishbowl.


Pimp My Rod....lol :)

Mike

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2007 05:53PM by Michael Joyce.

IMO, such a competition would be of little interest, or use, to most of the "run of the mill" builders such as myself.

It sounds good on paper, but I can't see the general interest or usefullness for most builders. Hope I don't ruffle too many feathers with my opinion!

Stan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2007 08:52PM by Stan Gregory.

I'd rather see a 'rod builders roast' held at the RM gathering. There's tons of stuff posted right here that could be used to roast quite a few people very, very well I should think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2007 09:54PM by Steven Libby.

The views on this idea have been great! Good and bad. I guess that is why these forums are so great.

I did want to expand more of my thoughts on it though.

The original post was mainly to describe the concept. The details about a particular blank being chosen was just an example. Creating a TV show out of it, looking forward as to what it could become, but not for a first experimental try (baby steps/test the waters kinda thing). Why the ICRBE? What a perfect event to try it out.

Tom Kirkman, did not want to pick on you because I know you’re the one that puts all the effort (and $$$) into creating the event in the first place. I could easily see that this is something you do not want to under take right now.

But, I do think that the one that does sponsor it will eventually win from it. As mentioned, all you really need are some guide lines/simple rules (no cost), willing participants (no cost) and a voting box. To keep in unbiased, don’t label the builders on the rods, just give them numbers. Yes, performance and other detail matters about the rod would be hard to judge, but these are custom rods…I would expect that! The ingenuity, creative wraps, color schemes, and over all WOW factor would win the votes. Shoot I bet even some amateurs would come up things that the masters would look at and think, “why did I not think of that?”.

As mentioned it is a win win for all. The participants would have some fun (hopefully) and the winner would have full bragging rights. I could see where a new potential, high paying client might come into your shop and say, “Why am I paying this much for this rod?” You the builder pointing at the plaque on your wall and replying “where are you going to find one better?”

Look. The whole idea was to think about how to expand the industry in general. I have fished my entire life and never owned a custom/hand built rod. About 6 months ago, as a whim, I decided to build my own fly rod from a kit. As you know that changed my life. After the fact I found this site. I never even knew this industry even existed (again after a life time of fishing (around 40 yrs if interested). Same thing with using the example of the custom motor cycles, never knew there was such an industry. I never mentioned the channel, but The Discovery Channel was mentioned…do you ride a custom bike? How did you know that was the channel?

I work in the crappy corporate world and we do have a saying sometimes, “If it’s working for them, lets adapt it to work for us” basically stealing another one’s idea. But the “Cook Offs, Bike Builder Offs, Eating Contest” and others is the” in thing” now. The whole goal is to promote the industry. What if other major publications heard about it and featured the competition and the winner in their magazine (again the “in thing”).

There where fishing shows on TV long before cable, the Discovery Channel and Build Off’s. There are unlimited customers out there, it’s just the corporations have them trained through heavy advertising and marketing. People are willing to pay more, they just don’t know enough about it.

And…you can’t have the 20th Annual “Your Company Name Here” Custom Rod Build Off without the first one.

Man that was a lot of typing…ok I’m done.