I am new to rod building and would like to build a sage z axis 3 weight rod, I dont want to start a fight or anything but I need help with guide selection, single foot double foot and guide materials and sizes it all seem so confusing. Lets pretend money was not an issue what would you recommend, also need advice on the seat. I went to the sage web site and I am not sure I even understand guide sizes. Excuse my stupidity but any help would be greatly appreciated

RodMaker had an article recently that covered all this. I'll assume you don't have it.

You won't need more than 3 different guide sizes. A butt or stripping guide, one intermediate size and then you can progress right down to the remainder of your guides which we'll call running guides.

Snake guides are size from 1 to 6. The smaller the number the smaller the guide. For a 3-weight rod which I'll assume you won't be using with shooting heads, etc., thus no large connections that need to fit through the guides, you can most likely use size 2 running guides. Possibly even size 1s, which would reduce weight even more. And that would be a good thing on such a light rod.

Ceramics are sized in milimeters from outside to outside of the ring. So, a size 12 ceramic guide carries a ring that is 12mm from outside to outside of the ceramic itself. The actual opening would be somewhat smaller.

For a nice workable set up on the rod you mention, I would choose a high frame (spinning type) size 12 ceramic followed by the same style in an 8 followed by size 2 or size 1 snake running guides. If you wanted to use all ceramics, then substitute size 6 single foot low frame ceramics for the snake guides.

On the cast you won't notice much difference between snakes and ceramics. Under load, the ceramics won't groove, help provide smoother line pay out (reel drag) and are quieter (you need to actually use and compare the two in order to understand this "quiet" thing). The cost for ceramics is generally a good bit higher, however, and snakes may be all you need.

A good compromise are the single foot wire guides. They'll only require half and as many wraps and thus save a little more weight as well. They're sized similar to snake guides.

I would suggest using a total number of guides that equals the number of feet in length of your rod, plus one, plus a tiptop. So, for an 8 foot rod, I'd use 9 guides plus a tiptop.

......................

if you went to the sage site, you'll see that they offer guide spacings as well as guide sizes for each of their models so you could make it look and probably cast closely to their off the shelf rods. as a custom rod builder, and sage mentions this, you can tailor the spacings, changing the feel. with practice and some knowledge gleaned fomr this site ad its members you could possibly improve the feel and performance a bit. are you getting the 9 foot 3wt in four pieces? aiming pretty high dollar wise for your first rod i see... ;-)

i like down locking cap and ring reel seats for my 8 foot and under rods. i also like pac bay's N style guides as a stripper with the Ti coating and zirconium ring, not that i NEED that zirconium, i just really like the look of the ring matched with Ti coated frame and the N style shape. i'd be tempted to use snake brand black nickle finish snakes which come with nicely prepped feet since i just gouged my fingernails last night filing a set of guides but when i came to my senses would use Ti coated single foot wire guides instead for light weight and again for looks. size 1s like tom said would be good, even smaller like 1/0. i would consider a nice nickle silver cap and ring reel seat and blacken the hardware to match the guides (I like the struble D27) though i might be apprehensive only because i've never used a DL C&R seat on a nine footer. not sure if it would be a problem... i might also look at REC's offerings in a down or uplocking screwy seat with one of their premium wood inserts.

to finish off, i might get the grey velourish rod bag from pacific bay and quite possibly one of their new wood veneer rod cases.

dang, i sound like an ad for pacbay!!! sorry. i have no affiliation with them besides being a satisfied customer.

bu then really in the end, i don't think i would ever start off my foray into rodbuilding with a sage Z Axis as a first project.

good luck

eric
fresno, ca.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2007 08:41PM by eric zamora.

I personally don't like the snake style guides, though, on a 3 wt I think you might be better off with wire guides after the first two ceramics and I woudl go with single foot wire guides

I agree with Toms suggestions for the first two guides and i would probably use Titans from American Tackle. i would look at single foot wire guides for the rest. you might look at the recoil single foot guides in a size 6. I haven't used them but have heard some good things about them.

Thanks for your help, it all seems confusing when all you can do is read about it and look on line, there are no local shops to go and see any of the products all of you have mentioned.

Eric, I take it from your comment that there is a good possibility that I may screw up my first project, my wife wanted to know what to get me for christmas and I didnt want to miss my chance. Is there some other blank you would recommend that would be similar in action to the z axis that I could use as my first attempt.

This is one very cool project. If price is not an issue it seems fitting for a rod of this caliber to be equipped with top shelf components. Fuji Titanium or Cermet Guides, an exotic burl wood reel seat with Nickel Silver hardware ( such as any of the smaller offerings from REC, Bellinger or Venneri), a nice custom turned grip and then topped off with some tasteful feather work and tidy register marks for lining up the sections. If you want to complete the package get a custom leather tube made with matching rod sock and you'll have one very classy rod. You can match it with a Ross Evolution 1 and save yourself a bundle compared to any of the really high priced reels. The Evolutions are extremely light and will give you years of trouble free use.

Good luck with it no matter what choices you make.

Dave

david, first, if you go into your control panel and "unhide" your email address you may open up possibilities of private messages to you.

as for screwing up your first wrapped rod... let me clarify a bit. i think it's a definite probability that your first wrap job won't come out Perfectly. unless you make a mistake on general mixture ratios of thread finish, deviate from basic procedures, bad eyesight (in which case the final product won't be so discernible) or have club fingers, i think you'll be surprised how well the first rod DOES come out, especially with the help offered through this community (and others including written tutorials found everywhere). at the same time, it's general practice (though not a rule) to start your first wrap on a low to mid level priced blank. not a bad quality blank, just low to mid in price since again, you'll be surprised at how well it WILL come out. to fine tune your own abilities and technique takes one or two rods i think at least. thread finish application has some variables to it and often the problem is user error or bad advice if you're not careful.

some people say to practice wrapping thread and applying thread finish on other items like arrows, pencils, dowels, etc. i say go for a les expensive blank. again, it'll end up as a fishable rod and a good learning experience.

christmas gift? GREAT wife. unless she hasn't seen the price tag yet LOL. seriously, price point for me is a big issue. i say go for that gift but also get a blank as i described to practice on first. wrap the sage second.... if you're under the assumption that sage would be the only blank you'll ever wrap, you are probably gravely mistaken. there will be a third and a fourth... it's addicting.

as for a substitute in similar action, i'll leave that to others to offer since i'm not familiar with that sage. one thing you may want to read up on is the Common Cents System (CCS) which is a method of determining certain mechanical attributes of blanks. this allows someone in your position to view the numbers in the chart and determine what other blank should have a similar feel. check the second and third listings in the column of sponsors to the left of this site's pages.

eric
fresno, ca.
(relative newbie myself)

Eric, thanks for the advice. As for my wife she hasn't seen the price and won't until she gets the credit card bill at which time I will be begging for forgiveness instead of seeking permission.

Get two, the sage and a less expensive one that you can build for her so the two of you can share some quality time together. Build hers first.

she encourages my fishing so she doesnt have to spend time with me

David, I hope that's not "code" fer she's got a boyfriend! LOL!!

Putter
Williston, ND