I built myself my first conventional surf rod last winter, and was torn about whether to built it traditional or spiral. In the end, because I had such good experiences with spirals on a couple of boat rods, I went with a spiral, and decided on the simple spiral. I set it up, tested it, and it seemed to cast well, though I wasn't 100% sure, because I was just learning how to cast a conventional reel. So I went home and wrapped and finished it.

The rod is a 10-foot, 2-piece, 4-12 ounce bait chucker, and the first time I went to fish with it, I was using a 50-lb mono shock leader. I (stupidly, of course) hadn't used a shocker during test casting, and learned that the simple spiral, which had worked so well without a shock leader, didn't handle the shock leader knot all that great. My bumper guide was a Size 16, as were my running guides and top, but it seemed that the transition from stripper to bumper to 1st-180 guide was just a little bit too sharp, and the shock leader knot was bumping into the guide during casting.

For the time being, I think I've solved my problem. At the suggestion of a wizened old surfcaster, I respooled my Squidder with 80-lb. braid, which has about the same thickness of 20 lb. mono (what I had been using), and therefore provides the same line capacity. The heavy braid eliminates the need for a shock leader, and the casting has improved noticeably.

But I'm still thinking about surf spirals and shock leaders, and I'm wondering if the simple spiral work with shock leader knots. Or do the other spiral methods (like 60, 120, and 180) work better? And are there guys out there who have tried surf spirals, and don't like them?

I'm comfortable with the fact that this problem could be because I screwed up building this, by the way. So don't be afraid to let me have it if you think I deserve it.

You may not have screwed-up at all. You might have just short-changed yourself on the length of the shock line. I used to tie my shock leader so that I had about two wraps on the reel when in the casting position. I could sometimes feel the shock not passing through the first two guides when I cast the rod under a good load. Without changing anything except the number of turns of shock leader on the reel spool (now 6 to 8) I never feel the knot pass through the guides. I'm guessing that by increasing the shock leaders length I've delayed the knots passing through the guides until a point that the reel is under less of a load from the initial release. This worked well for me on all of my conventional rods and may be worth a try.

Bruce has given you some great advice. Try his set up and see if that doesn't fix things for you. I've spoken to others that have mentioned the same thing, even on non-spiral rods they feel having a longer shock leader tends to help the casting as well.

The Simple Spiral works well on surf rods, but any surf rod used with a shock leader needs to be test cast in order to determine the best size guides.

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During my experimentations using the spiral knot with long surf rods with shockleaders revealed early on that any guide setup that doesn't provide an almost straight [path to the choker guide(flex point) will cause problems.

Using a heavier line all the way to the sinker will cut down on casting distance. A shockleader allows the use of a lighter line while protexting the general public from damage caused by the premature release of a heavy sinker. A single, solid line can also wears and break. A shockleader knot allows the replacement of the shockleader and knot. This is not speculation: I still have several sinkers in orbit somewhere.

After many casts/combinations, I finally settled on the Q'Quinn Methos which does this.. It doesn't differ in any way from a conventionally wrapped rod, except the absence of rod torque.

I have several spiral wrapped rods being used as we speak that I can't get back which are wrapped with the first guide at 45 degrees then on to the choke. I have also used the first guide at zero(or a tad off) then the second guide at 45 degrees then on to the choker. I try to put a ferrule on the flex point so I can wrap a guide there.

My personal surf rods are all spiral wrapped and have put some large fish on the beach. C2

bad thing about power pro is it doesn't stand up to sandbars very well and will start fraying quickly. on my beach reels i use about 300 yards of 30 lb power pro then fill the reel up with mono then add the shock leader. doing it this way almost doubles my line capacity and makes sure the only line that gets anywhere close to a sandbar is the mono which sand doesn't bother anywhere near as much and it does power pro.

can't really help you much with the spiral wrap as i have yet to build a surf rod but will be doing a couple this winter