New guy here...
I am building a 9' 4 wt rod for trout fishing, and want to use size 6 Fuji Alconites. I would also like to use one of these for the tip top. Will it be able to stand up to the stress that the tip of a rod goes through? is size 6 an appropriate size for a 4 wt line?
Thanks,

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

George,
It would work fine, in truth there is very little load on the tip top. Another way to go is the new smaller Batson guides that Custom Tackle is bringing in. AM tack has ceramic flys and tip tops down to a 5 now.

George,

I've done several light fly rods with the single foot fly type guides wrapped on as the tip top.

I'd think it would be MUCH stronger, from a practical standpoint, than the metal tube mounted ones, and certainly has a better and more solid connection to the blank. No messing with glues and a nice looking thread wrap onto the blank.

I really like the way it looks, everything 'matches', and the line path is straighter as well.

The 'drawbacks', if there are any, is that it takes more time and care to do and it's more difficult to 'redo' if you bust the guide (never happened on any of my rods, but I guess it could happen...).

Just my opinion, of course.

Buddy Sanders

It's a fairly common thing with the jetty fishermen who use their rods to pole vault around the rocks. If you can't get a big enough single footed guide, just cut one leg off a double footed guide. I use a 'X' locking wrap which fills the tunnel and make sit more rugged.

One well-known builder writes about bending one foot of a double footed guide back under. I've never tried this, but it would work.. C2

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your repsonses! I think I will try to find size 5's from Batson, although I don't see them in their catalogue, or go with 5's from Am Tac. What about Stripping guides? I like the N model from Pac Bay. Does a size 12, then a size 10, with 5's the rest of the way sound reasonable? I want to be able to shoot line when necessary, since I'm not a good enough caster to be able to arealize a lot, especially with the winds we get out here in CO.

George,

This is for a 4 wt. rod, correct?

If so, then stick with the single foot alconites for ALL the guides. If you can't bring yourself to use ALL 6s (it works amazingly well for those willing to give it a go), then use one 8, one 7 as a tamer four inches up, then 6s or 5s (if you can find them) for the rest. Remember, the SMALLER the guides, the better the rod will 'shoot' line.

Double foots give you nothing in the way of advantages for a rod such as this. Disadvantages to the doulbe foots are extra work, extra weight, and they look really odd once you get used to the sleek look of an all single foot fly rod....

Just the way I do it, but it works, looks really nice, and performs well. Others do have differing opinions, and really, it IS just a fishing rod....

Good Luck!

Buddy Sanders

As second to Buddy's comment. (I don't post very often here. Prefer to be outside ...)

Anyway, been crafting rods since 83. Began to use nothing but singles on fly rods in 88 or so.

I ceased using stripper guides on all fly rods about same time, including some 8 to 10 wgts. No problems and way lighter, though I do employ a 3-guide butt-set that I read about in some mag back around 88. Wands are lighter and cast like a dream. Some few rods later, no complaints, no come-backs. I even converted all my rods, but two old HMG Fenwick Fly rods that I use with mono mostly, to same set-up. It is easy and casting is easier and longer...when needed on big water, and it gives a 4 wgt more juice and accuracy.

About 10 years ago I read the Canada anglers make float rods without TTs, using single footer instead. Made sense to me, as I did have a couple guys bring rods in where the TT had loosened due to heat or whatever. Tried it on some long float rods and a couple fly rods and that Canadian method works well, very well, and takes the heat (and flame) out of the equation.

I might add that in the late 80s I began to use what recently became the "Fuji Concept" method of guide selection and placement for spin rods. It just made sense that all those guides sizes were not needed, so I tried it, though Tom's way of measuring was easier (reel axis and table edge way) than how I did it then for spin rods. When making a fly rod I went to 3 to 5 guides sizes, including the single foot stripper, depending on line wgt. (The size of guide run to the rod tip consider size to reduce ice on steel/salmon rods, however.) And I am sure the 3-guide butt-set does have a bearing.

I like to experiment.

All I can say is, "simple is better" and "Life is Good."



Hive

Buddy,

What do you mean "it IS just a fishing rod"???!!!"...

I haven't even bought a single part for it yet, but it consumes every moment of my waking consciousness. I can't even remember kids' names. I forgot my anniversary earlier this month. No one else in my home can even get close to the computer when I'm not at work...

I have never built a rod, and I really appreciate all of your help. This will be paired to a reel with a 2-3/4" dia. Is using ALL 5's a good idea, or would you put a stripper in there?

Thanks,



George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

George,

Just to get some 'terminology' set: The first 'guide' up from the reel on any fly rod is called the stripper, regardless of it's configuration.

Unless things have changed, I haven't seen size 5 Fuji Alconites available. They do make those wonderful (but pricely) SICs in a 5. If you can afford them, use them.

But, check FIRST, that a size 5 guide will pass all your normal connections. Some folks can use some pretty bulky knots, and you want to be sure that everything flows well. I use 6s as running guides on all my rods up to 7 wt. with no troubles. 5s 'should' be fine, but be sure or you won't like the rod much....

I've built a couple of 4 wts. (and even a couple of 6 wts) with ALL 6s, and they cast really well. That being said, it's not all that critical either way.

It's really up to you. If you like the way a slight step down in guide sizes 'look' then use a 7 or 8, then a 6 or 7, and then all your running gudes in 5 or 6. If you want a sleek 'even' look to the guides, then go with all 5s or 6s.

No human will be able to tell the difference between these set ups while fishing it.

I know that all this seems really important, but the truth is, you could bend guides from some paper clips, tape them to a blank with masking tape, use duct tape to attach the reel and build up a handle, and go out and catch LOTS of fish with such a rod. THAT is the 'purpose' of all this work and discussion, to build a rod that will catch fish. ALL the rest of it is just common sense, and of course, pride of craftsmanship (which may be the 'most' important part-I do know that NONE of it matters even a little to the fish).

Good thing I'm not a fish.

Good Luck!

Buddy

Buddy, Hive, and everyone else,
Thank you for the helpful comments. I'm going to with all 6's, either Fuji or Batson, probably Batson, just because I'm amazed at how quickly they sent me the catalogue that I requested.
Regards,
George

Does anyone have a pic of how to wrap this single foot on the end of the rod?

I have 3.5 ID cermit running guides on the Winston I am working on I am having a hard time finding a 3.5 ID tip top so I am considering using a single foot for the TT but I am not sure how the best way is to finish off at the end of the rod. Being a visual guy I need a pic.

Thanks,

Ray

Use a Forhan locking wrap and place the guide as close as possible to the end of the tip. When you add finish coat the tip of the blank too.

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Ralph,

Do I need to taper the very tip (last 1/16" or so) up to the guide leg? Or do I just let the very tip end be visible where the wrap ends at the end of the blank?

What I am wondering is how to close off the end of the blank so it looks best.

Thanks,

Ray

Check this out:



[www.rodbuilding.org]

George (and Ray),

I usually try to get a bit closer to the end of the blank than that.

I want the guide leg to 'seem' to come off the very end of the blank. I leave only enough room for the two locking wraps, so that only about 1 thread width of the blank shows. With a single foot ceramic insert guide, it will look more finished than what was posted in the photo.

When finishing the wrap, I coat the tip end of the blank with the finish and try to taper it onto the top edge of the guide foot. Done correctly, everything looks nicely finished and any open holes are sealed.

If, after you have wrapped the guide, you find that you have more blank showing than you want, you can carefully sand some off with a drum sander in a dremel (you got to REAL careful doing this-slow and sure).

Good Luck!

Buddy Sanders