Any feedback is appreciated.....

I purchased some great Madiera thread in 8 shades of blue. I have had nothing but problems everytime I use it. Before I used the thread I posted on this site and many said it is great because of the colors.... a few said you should use CP, but others said CP is not needed.....

The finish seems to have a hard time going on even..... I will get it even and it will get spots that just wont level out... they are not typical fisheye, but the ned result is the finish looks like crap.......

The thread turns much darker than the color selected.... dark blue turned so dark you can hardly tell it is there on a black blank. It also truns almost translucent..... if you look close you can actually see the shiny part of the guide foot where I filed to.

Top it all off with what happened last night and i am ready to through it in the garbage...... I put on a light coat of threadmaster two nights ago and the finish was bad as described above, but I figured the first coat would seal the thread and then I could get a second coat to flow....... WRONG!! I am not sure what happened, but I put the finish on started working from the tip to the butt, by the time I finished and went back to look at the tip the finish had beaded up like water on a waxed car hood...... I tried a little flame to see if that would help... nope... I tried brushing it... nope.....

I took alcohol and wiped off the wet finish, so now I need to proceed to salvage this rod..... any help is appreciated......

Should the Madiera go in the garbage??? Should I use CP? Others have posted that CP actually causes problems as well? Madiera is about the size of A thread, so is one layer enough for guides on a seeker 270?

Would it be good to seal the thread with Marine Spar varnish and then apply finish?

Thanks,

Maderia is not rod building thread. It is sewing thread and has been coated with a lubricant that makes it work nicely in sewing machines and similar devices. If you do not seal that off, your finish may be repelled by the lube in the thread.

Color Preserver does not cause problems. Improper use of color preserver can cause problems.

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I think the vast majority CP it. I do because of the problems you mentioned above.

A single overwrap should be fine on a 270.

Mark Griffin
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C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

So far tehre is only one rodbuilder who I know who can put finish directly on Billy 40wt Madeira and NOT have this problem, and tha tis Jim Rippe. REgardless of waht his results are - and his results ARE TRUTHFUL as I've seen teh results of his non-CP'd wraps with my own eyes in High Point - you need to use CP on Billy 40wt thread.

Which CP works best on Madeira? Has Gudebrod fixed the problems with their 811?
Dave

John; The thread you should be using, if it's Madeira, is Madeira #40 Polyneon. If you got something else, other than a metallic, you are going to have some problems. Polyneon thread needs a color preserver for the reasons explained above. So far as your rod is concerned you'll have to start over unless you like the color the thread is now. The only other thing I might add is, that you may have contaminated the thread trying to clean it, so I would suggest that you coat it with CP before trying to cover it with epoxy.

The thread is Polyneon #40 in eight shades of blue....... it is great looking thread, so I will use CP in the future..... I have lots of other colors of Guderbrod thread, but the shades of blue go well against the black blank.

The guides had an initial coat of finish on them that I put on the night before last, and it was cured and looked ok, but had a few fisheyes..... it was the second coat I was working on last night that beaded up, like water on the hood of a waxed car.....

Do I need to strip the rod and start over? Can I clean the wraps with alcohol and then put on a second coat? Is there something else I can use to clean the wraps and then put on one final coat?

Thanks again,
John

I just finished a rod using Madiera. Like everyone else I used CP and had no trouble with it. I put 2 coats on. I like the thread and will use it again.

John, it sounds to me like you need to scrap the rod and start over. Something is wrong and it is probably the lack of CP. I love Madiera and use it all the time but always with CP. I know you are not supposed to do it but I thin my first coat of finish with alcohol and try to get some penetration and sealing action. It works for me and I seldom have any problems with the finish or the thread. Maybe this load of thread just has a little more of the lubricant in it than normal. Who knows. Try it again.

I had another idea. Take the 8 shades and just straight wrap them one after another on a test blank or wood dowel and try to finish it with CP before you go to all the work on a rod. Try one layer of CP and then do a separate section with 2 coats of CP and see what happens when you finish it. I use practice blanks to check ideas and new finishes, etc so I dont screw up a good rod. Works for me.......

Holy smokes..... scrap the rod? I thought one of the great hings I have always read on this board is that there is almost nothing that can't be fixed..... I think I will try a couple of alternatives prior to the scrap idea.....


Thanks for the other info...... I will do a test with CP....

I use two coats of U-40 Color Lock and then two coats of Perma Gloss. I want everything totally smooth and finished before the epoxy goes on. I do notice that the Madiera does get darker with the color lock so I try to start out quite a bit lighter in color when laying out a design.
I only did the Perma Gloss after reading that Billy did it but the results are fantastic. So he gets credit the first couple of times and in the not too distant future I am going to start saying, I always use PG.

Jim, lol on teh credit thing - you like ho wI renamed Polyneon as Billy 40 wt (Billy 40 is my name on other message boards). Truth is, I learned about Polyneon from Mac's custom tackle from Ohio at a Rodcfrater's National in 2001. They had a lot of wrap cutoffs & rods using the thread. The PG as the first coat I stumbled upon after readiing a Jim Upton post where he said he put it on a weave.

Maderia has so many shades of color, like the blues, that you can see very little difference in the color once CP is applied. I've tried a fade using 9 blues and it looks like 2 or 3. It's best to do the test by putting a bunch of shades on a scrap and then CP them. I use U40 and find that you have to go several shades lighter in order to get the appearance you think you want. But it's neat to have so many shades to pick from!!

GRant, that's why I never used U40 or FC CP.

I've got 4 bottles of CP brands on or under the bench, and they ALL darken thread, some more than others. You'd still be hard pressed to get a color difference from the subtle shades offered by Maderia.