Last November I posted on this forum “Reel Weights Effect On Sensitivity” and got some interesting insights and theories.
For the last few days, I’ve been following several interesting posts discussing handle materials and weights and their effects on sensitivity.
I think most of us realize that once a near optimum product is achieved, it can be very difficult to make even the slightest improvements without expending considerable energy (or cost) for even very small gains.
Assuming all efforts are made to reduce weight on the tip end of a rod, there is something that can be done at the butt end, that granted, is not as critical, but worth considering, especially for those of us that are almost obsessed about weight and sensitivity.
I read a comment regarding the requirement of a “high quality spinning reel” used with a “super light/sensitive state of the art” spinning rod. This certainly makes sense, but most high quality reels (except for a few very high dollar models) are relatively heavy. Ironically, there are cheaper, lower quality reels that are much lighter and better serve the requirement (or desire) for low weight. Granted, they don’t have a dozen ball bearings or some of the whistles and bells and they certainly don’t last as long. I think mine only have two ball bearings and when they get a hundred thousand miles or so (or no longer feel smooth), I just replace them and I’m good to go.
BTW, I’m NOT suggesting this as an alternative to some “top secret” graphite tube, but as just another low tech means to an end.

Yes you can do things to lighten up the butt that may or may not make the rod more sensitive.

There is one draw back of making a butt really light and that is it can cause an even very light rod to feel tip heavy. You may increase sensitivity, but at the cost off decreasing “bite detection” which is one of the draw backs of a tip heavy rod.
(at least in bass fishing)




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2007 11:23PM by Steve Gardner.

I'd like to add something to the discussion: the taper of a rod can lead to increased sensitivity. I'm not talking about a "fast tip" but rather a "fast taper" or what used to be called "fast action" design. These were really popular in many of the old glass blanks - relatively fat butt, really small tip. In the graphites and composites, the butt diameter can be as much as half of the old glass designs but the relative taper (ratio of decrease per-inch or per-foot of rod) can be such that the resut is a sensitive rod.

Sensitivity can also be enhanced by the balance of the whole fishing outfit. If you build a skeleton grip system, and couple it with a lightweight reel and light-frame guides, you can end up with an amazingly light rod that is well-balanced (just forward of the reel, or maybe even neutral at the reel foot) that "feel" quite sensitive just because it is light. Heavier rods, properly balanced, can feel relatively sensitive if properly balanced.

You customer might tell you that he likes a tip-heavy rod (very feww want a butt-heavy rod, I think) and then you've got the conundrum of building a rod that has a forward balance and still needs to "feel" light in the hand an sensitive to the bite. Maybe moving from, say, IM6 to IM 7 will help. But I guess what I'm offering here is that the taper of the blank itself may be as important as the actual weight.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Russ, agree with your observation fully. The action and power of a blank really affects the sensitivity.

Mo

Russ;
I can't speak for all types off fishing, but Bass fishermen definitely want a tip light rod in most situations and if that means making a butt heavier rod to do so then that is what they want or do. There are even kits you can buy to accomplish this on rods that don't already offer this feature. I do this on my personal larger rods.

Part of the reason moving the reel forward like, on say a bait caster is not an option as it defeats the purpose of the longer rod.

Example:
If a client says I want an 8ft flipping stick and you tell him it will be tip heavy, but you can correct that some by making the handle longer or move the reel forward. His response in most cases is going to “if that’s the case I my as well stick with a 7ft. 6in. rod because I won’t have any more blank to work with just a longer handle The answer is to weight the butt some to compensate for the longer blank.

In flipping an additional 6 inches of blank equates to an additional 12-24” of line out depending on how the flipper flips. This doesn’t sound like much, but it can make an incredible difference in flipping

If you define sensitivity as how much of the energy in the fish's bite gets to the fisherman's hand, which it seems to me is the only reasonable way to define it, then any added weight wherever it is on the rod will reduce the sensitivity. If the rod is held at a low angle, parallel to the water then the sensitivity will be reduced in direct proportion to the added weight. As the tip of the rod is raised then the affect of the added weight gets more complicated and has a larger affect at the tip then at the butt but even if added at the butt it still reduces sensitivity. You cannot add mass (weight) to a rod and reel without reducing the sensitivity. A rod and reel that has been balanced by adding weight may feel more comfortable but it will not be more sensitive.
Jim makes a very good point about the weight of the reel. The reel can add more weight and as a result reduce the sensitivity more than anything else. The lighter the reel the better in terms of sensitivity.

I'm curious abotu something. Sinc hte reel sits in your hand, lower than the rod on a spinner, higher on a conventional - how much does it really affect sensitivity. The reason I ask - if a 7' 400# guy with big bear claw hands is holding arod, his hands will weigh a lot more than a 5'1 Gymnast. Since the reel lies in the hands, which is holding the rod, shoudl that be taken into effect as far as how sensitive a set up is? Would a smaller person feel teh sensitivity more than a larger person?

I doubt it, but there is no doubt that some folks are better at "feeling" what's going on with their lures than others. I routintely fish with one person who simply can't feel a strike. I've watched his line, sometimes even his twitching rod tip and told him that a fish had picked up his lure, but he'll say that he feels nothing or that he thinks he just picked up some grass.

............

I would think that each person would have a physiological sense of feel unique to their own body. Relative differences in rod and reel weight would still be an issue, but I would think that a “smaller” person would be more acutely aware of weight differences.

I suspect that Jim is right and every person's physiology is different. But setting that aside I do not think that the size of the fisherman's hand will make a lot of difference. But it is partially a function of how you chose to measure it. The energy in the fish's bite is going to get to the fisherman's hand in the form of movement and/or force. If you chose to measure the sensitivity by measuring the movement of the hand then naturally the size of the hand would have an effect. But if you chose to measure the force then I do not think that it would make any difference. In the upcoming article in RodMaker on Stiffness and Sensitivity I chose to measure the peak force with a strain gage.

Tom,
The problem changes when you bring the line into the equation. How much of the energy in the fish's bite that then gets to the fisherman's hand is a function of the mass density and elasticity of the line and the tension on the line. You can think about mass density as weight and in this case elasticity as how much the line will stretch. But before the weight and stretch in the line have any effect it is a function of the tension on the line. The more tension the more energy will come up the line. If the line is slack then very little of the energy gets from the fish to the fisherman's hand. That is why some people watch the line and some fishing techniques also dictate this approach.

When a guy's rod tip is twitching and bouncing, I'd say a pretty good amount of energy is coming up the line and reaching the rod.

.............

Tom,
Yes, I agree. My only point was that the type of line and the tension on the line have a large affect on sensitivity. In fact, in many cases the reel and the line have more affect on sensitivity than anything that we as rod builders do to the rod.

Emory, I'm glad you stated that, as that is wha tI and many others have been saying for a long time, throughout the argumentfest threads on sensitivity.

Bill,
I do not think because the reel and line have a large affect means that the rod builder should not still focus on weight and make the rod itself as sensitive as possible plus sensitivity is not the only issue. But I guess the type of fishing that you do you could use a broom handle with guides made from a coat hanger. LOL.

Not to get off topic Tom, but that sounds a lot like 3/4 of the steelhead fisherman I know!!!

I think that more then the size of a mans hands, what he does with his hands has an effect on sensitivity. I’ve been a plumber/plumbing contractor for thirty years. Cutting my hands hundreds of times destroying nerves. On top of all the chemicals, just the calluses built up on hands of people that work for a living, carpenters, mechanics, steal workers, ect.

Deaden the feel or the ability to feel. More than someone that has spent their life doing things like office work or light duty work.

One of the reasons I developed the offset handle so the blank would rest against my palm on the inside of the tubing was to help compensate for the loss of feeling in my finger tips do to years of abuse.

Let's not forget that implementing a drop in performance with a cheaper, lighter reel will affect your fishing. Why put a cheapie with poor drag, limited anti-reverse and sloppier gearing and balance on a well built rod? The angler will suffer.

Ted,
I agree with you. Although all things, including “cheap”, being relative, there are some lower priced reels available that offer good quality AND light weight. Since they may lack a half dozen or more ball bearings, they are admittedly not quite as smooth as some of the high dollar reels.
For the guy that needs more than one or two reels and price is an issue, it’s possible to buy several less sophisticated versions (that rival the low weight) for the price of one of it’s magnesium framed cousins.
It doesn’t make sense to me to build the lightest rods possible and not consider reel weight as part of the “performance package”.

Ted,,, sometimes you can get away from those factors. Usually within a manufacturers other offerings you can pilfer pieces from one to upgrade another. This is very common with drags and bellevilles. Shimano and Penn guys do it all the time. Aftermarket has some decent drag upgrades as well.
So far as bearings. Boca Bearings has been where I pick up high precision and replacement bearings. I have found that bearings in reels are all pretty good though, even in the cheaper ones. The trick is that you should take them out, clean then, and relube with good stuff. Often have seen grease used in spool bearings on cheaper reels, and light oil on pricier ones. Clean out the grease and use good oil on those cheaper reel bearings, and you just greatly improved freespool.

Dave;
You are right about the after market items and the Boca bearings. But then if your going to spend that kind of money to upgrade the reel. why not just buy the better reel to begin with?