Periodically people post questions about the spine on a blank. Often the responses are varied and I believe the person asking the questions does not walk away with a general understanding of spines or their effects. I have put together a short overview about spines and how they are perceived by a long distance shore fisherman and tournament caster. Hopefully it will be helpful.

The overview is on my website at:

[www.donstacklehawaii.com]

Don

Don;
Are you looking for honest feed back on this, or
did you just post here for general info.
If you are looking for honest feed back from the builders here be prepared that you may not like what you read.

No offense, but I don't see anything that indicates that the spine orientation has any effect on rod performance at all

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your "honest feedback". ;)

I come from a state of long distance shore fishermen and what I have written is representative of standard building practices for larger rods. On many boards, people seek out new or different ways of doing things. I would hope to introduce another point of view.

Mahalo,
Don

Good article Don. I subscribe to the belief no single person knows everything. But when I can align the "miracle ridges" on my blank's sections, stretch a string from the tip to the butt and stretch it until the tip is almost at a 90 degree bend, wherever that blank wants to come to rest will be exactly how I'll be fishing with it - it just makes sense in my mind to do so. I also align the spines in my golfshafts when building/reshafting golf clubs (and so do the pros). Recently I checked my carbon hunting arrows for a spine and couldn't detect one but I bet if I put it on one of those frequency oscillator things I bet it would indicate the best way to orient it to be shot out of a bow. I'LL SPINE MINE - sounds like a good bumper sticker.

Your point of view has been discussed here as long as this board has been around. Some folks believe in building on the spine and to some it makes no difference. We respect your opinion. Not being an engineer, I can't argue your point of view. I just build my rods on the straightest axis and let it go at that. And that concludes my "honest feedback."

Agur, Ellis

That's the problem, stringing one up tip to butt, or rolling it while flexing it, doesn't approximate anything that actually happens when a fish is on the line.

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I am becoming convinced that in all areas of performance there is one positive influence which, though it eludes all quantitative measurement, can still provide a distinct benefit; and that is the aspect of CONFIDENCE.

When one believes in the method and or tool being employed the positive expectation actually increases one's chance of success. I am being quite serious in this opinion. This is probably impossible to prove or disprove, yet I think there is a preponderance of evidence as witnessed in real lilfe situations to support my assertion.

The relative merit of spine orientation seems an ideal subject of this principle at work. My own intuition as to the underlying forces at work when confidence is added to the equation rest in the suspect area of energy fields that all life forms generate. Many books have been sold touting the importance of Positive Mental Attitude and the effect of such in everything from business success to health and well being.

I am not seeking a discussion of parapsychology per se, just offering my personal observation of a clear corroboration between confident expectations and positive results.

If, however anyone wishes to discuss this at depth with me I am certainly open to all views. Perhaps you might wish to reach me personally via email instead of swiping this thread. Or else start a new thread. I would be curious to see how if others agree with me on this.

Dave

I seriously doubt there is a professional fisherman anywhere in this country that can cast with enough accuracy that spining a rod would make a difference in his casting accuracy. As for fighting a fish....He wouldn't notice the difference there either,he's too excited. That's why I build on the straightest axis .

We side with Tim Collins. Out customers seem to like the results. There are numerous other factors involved, of course. But spine, as one of them, is a practical feature for us, rather than an argument or technical theory.

BTW, arrows can be spined, and it makes a diffference in the initial rate of deflection on the release. We were messing about with that back in the 70's. Graphite golf shafts can be spined and that's an interesting, also continuing, discussion on the golf BBS's amongst folks who make their own clubs, or buy custom clubs.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

One thing I know is that most rods have a spine,, and I use it to my benefit. I look at it as the point of least resistance, and work with it .

If it wasn't an important aspect of rod building, it wouldn't be mentioned in every book on rod building that I own.

Just my 2 cents.

The earliest books on rod building also mentioned spine, and all stated flatly that it was of no consequence in rod building.

It's not an important aspect of rod building and only became thought of as being so in the mid to late 1970's. But every author that thought it important never stopped to consider that when we fight a fish, we do it with a line that is pulling through a series of guides on the rods. And not a single one of those authors ever bothered to string up a rod with guides, and then load the blank that way. They just flexed or loaded the blank by hand - something which a fish does not do. When we fish, the rod is loaded by means of a line pulling through guides, or small lever arms, if you prefer. And that's exactly why the major argument for any particular orientation of rod spine - that of using it to create a stable rod, is completely flawed.

Many years ago a fellow by the name of Steve Sink, a rod builder out of Lexington, NC, came by my shop and we were discussing spine. He made the comment that my spine finder was useless because any rod loaded via a line through the guides, just as rods are when they are used in actual fishing situations, will turn until the guides are on the bottom of the rod. And he went on to say that this would be the case regardless of where I oriented the spine. His argument made immediate sense to me but we proceeded to string up a few blanks, orienting the spine on top, bottom, side, etc, and then put them back into the spine fine. In every case, no matter where the spine was oriented, the blank spun so that the guides were on the bottom of the rod.

That was the impetus for my building of a mechanical casting machine from which we could go another step farther and see if spine influenced casting accuracy. It turned out that it did not.

In later years I built the spiral wrap demo device, which puts the demo rods into more of an actual fishing situation, and further proves that spine has little to no effect on rod stabilty or twist.

You aren't going to hurt your rod by orienting the spine in any favored location, but you're not going to create a more stable or more accurate rod with the spine, either.

.................

For anyone interested in a more technical, in depth look at spine in golf club shafts, and by inference rod blanks, here is a site that you may want to look at. [csfa.com.]. This is the site for Kaufman Enterprises who build devices for measuring golf club shafts. If you will go over the Tech Notes on this site it will give you a better understanding of spine and its affect and remove a lot of the @#$%& about spine that has been spread by people that are pulling the information out of their ears. These Tech Notes have been done by John Kaufman who is a very sharp mechanical engineer and has many years of experience testing golf club shafts. I have talked to John on several occasions and have always been impressed with his knowledge and objectivity.
Also Don Phillips book "Technology of Fly Rods" has a resonably good explanation of the causes of spine in it.

On page 91 of Fiberglass Rod Making by Dale P. Clemens, he states that," There generally is a spine or "high side" - a position in which the blank has slightly more power. This side should be located after the rod ferrules are installed and the adhesive has cured. Later, the guides will be wrapped on the side opposite the high side." he then goes on to tell how to find the spine. He also addresses the "straightness of a blank" and tells you how to get it aligned the best you can, and that you may not eliminate the curve completely. "This is not a problem because you will install the guides on the side opposite the bend, thereby straightening the blank".

Interesting. Seemed important to him. One of the early innovators, blank makers, etc.....

You guys still build on crooked blanks, huh?

No, Dale wasn't a blank maker, and you'd be hard pressed to find more than a very, very few blank makers who put any importance on rod spine. Dale traveled around and met many good rod builders who were innovators and he took those ideas and compiled them for everyone else. Not knocking Dale at all - we're still friends and talk every now and then and he was certainly a very knowledgeable rod builder (if you read the interview he did in RodMaker, you know he took great pride in "fitting" a rod to the individual customer - which is perhaps the real "backbone" of a good custom rod builder).

But Dale was wrong about rod spine. It's not really important. Someone flexed a blank by hand and jumped to a conclusion that the blank would behave the same way once a fish was on the line. But the two scenarios aren't at all similar. It was a mistaken assumption and not based on any tests or facts.

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Are you telling me that he didn't have a blank making facility when he was at the height of his components business?

If so, then I have been misinformed.

Dale Clemens neither owned nor operated a blank making facility at any point in his life.

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Dale also changed his mind on which side the spine was between the two books he wrote.

Yes to the change of mind,,, spinning on the bottom, casting on the top.