bear w/me...i'm new at this. i seem to have read somewhere that there is alternatives to cork rings, wood, eva etc for handles. maybe leather wraps? rope? i am interested mainly in spinning rods, for bass and catfish. thanks

With the leather wraps or rope, each of these have been used over cork. Not solely as the handle.

Jim,
I see no reason why the things the surf fisherman do wouldn't also work on the bass rods if you like the look.
There are lots of info and pictures on this site that will help. "Surf rod grips" , Leather grips. rope grips or similar posts in the search engine should get you some help.

Rattan, birch bark, & carbon fiber tubing are just a few.
See examples on the photo section

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

In california Butt cord used to be a big deal and was used a lot in surf fishing too. I will see if I can find some pics.

Jim,
A wide variety of materials can be used for handles on rods. However, cork has not been chosen for handles by accident. It has a combination of low density and high elasticity as compared to virtually all of the other materials used for handles. These characteristics result in cork weighing less and transmitting vibrations better than other materials. In other words a rod built using cork will have better sensitivity than rods built with any other material.
The other more dense and/or less elastic materials can have some advantages over cork for boat rods or rods that are used in fishing situations that do not require much sensitivity but if you want a rod that will have low weight and high sensitivity or feel you cannot beat old fashioned cork.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2007 11:10AM by Emory Harry.

"These characteristics result in cork weighing less and transmitting vibrations better than other materials. In other words a rod built using cork will have better sensitivity than rods built with any other material"

Emory, that may "test" to be the case in point scientifically, but in the real fishing world, I have to completely dis-agree on the sensitivity issue. There are more rigid, sensitive materials out there.

DR

Duane,
I agree that there are materials that have higher elasticity, are stiffer, available but there is no material that I am aware of that has the combination of low density, light weight, and high elasticity or stiffness. And sensitivity is the result of both the, density, weight, and the elasticity, stiffness.
I would argue that If the testing is done properly there will be no difference between the results of the testing the the empirical evidence.
If you know of a material that will result in a rod that is more sensitive than cork , has a combination of lower density and higher elasticity, I would like to know what it is. I have looked at the characteristics of all of the materials that I can think of.

Emory;
I don't know about "lower density and higher elasticity".
But there a diffidently ways to make rods more sensitive then using cork.

Now based on the knowledge of what you know, and that is in my opinion quite substantial. You might be right.
But there are a lot of materials and concepts out there that you are not aware of. Those do and will add up to rods being more sensitive.

In this case Duane is correct!

Steve,
I agree that there are a lot of things that affect sensitivity but I thought we were having a discussion about just handle materials and sensitivity. If you and Duane choose to believe, as Duane stated that other materials only because they are more rigid than cork are more sensitive than cork that is fine with me. But in fact, stiffness, not rigidness, is only part of what determines the affect that a material will have on sensitivity. The materials mass, determined by its density, will have as much affect.
You may be correct with your statement, there are a lot of concepts and materials out there that I not aware of. I have done a good deal of looking at the properties of all of the materials that are commonly used and all of the materials that I could think of and I have also made a lot of measurements of the variables that control sensitivity. But why don't you enlighten me and tell me about all of the concepts and materials out there that you know about that I am unfamiliar with.

I for one would be interested in seeing a test for sensitivity between brick foam arbor material and cork. I have made grips from brick foam covered with flock that seem to be excellent on ultra light spinning rods.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Stan,
I have not made the specific measurement of the sensitivity of cork versus flocked foam. I did measure the difference in the weight of the foam arbors that I have versus cork though and if I remember correctly the cork was about 30% lighter than the foam arbor. I also remember looking for the elasticity of the foam and could not find anything. But just guessing by looking at the foam I would guess that its elasticity is a little higher than cork. If that is the case then this would mean that the flocked foam and cork would turn out to be roughly the same in terms of sensitivity.

One question!!! Other than fly rods, who actually touches the grips when fishing?? When fishing with spinning rods, my hand is wrapped around the reel seat and forefinger (no foregrip) is on the blank. With a casting rod, hand is palming the reel, forefinger on the blank. At best, the hardened insensitive skin on the heel of my hand is resting on the grip. I always have a finger on the blank or line. The only rods that I hold by the grip might be a trolling rod when fighting a fish (sensitivity irrevelant)

I have no idea what is the most sensitive, but to me and my customers, the most important thing in grips is comfort and asthetics
Somehow I don't think that I'm the only one that feels that way

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

My hand is on the grip all of the time with a spinning or a casting set-up when fishing walleyes. One finger is ahead, usually lightly touching the side of the reel seat on a spinning set up. Casting, I like the exposed seats and one finger touches the exposed blank.

Putter
Williston, ND

With a spinning rod, I do hold the forgrip and blank in hand. I usually fish a spinning outfit with my entire hand in FRONT of the reel foot stem, or at least 3 fingers in front and one behind. I either like a nice epoxy ramp, or a small polyester forgrip, either of these out perform cork sensitivity wise.

DR

In your opinion, Duane...

Putter
Williston, ND

Why is cork used to deaden and absorb sound vibrations and under machinery, etc. to deaden and absorb vibrations and in a fishing rod to enhance vibration transmission??? Not a statement, just curious!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

yes...thats my opinion Randy, thats why it says "I like" .....

Mike has a good question above, anyone care to tackle that one?

DR

Mike,
Cork has a very low damping factor. It will damp out vibrations very quickly. But it will transmit the vibrations well because it has relatively high elasticity and very low mass. In other words cork will transmit the amplitude of vibrations well but will then quickly damp out the vibrations amplitude. What you sense or feel with a fishing rod is mainly the initially vibration.
Think about graphite versus fiberglass. Graphite has a lower damping factor than glass and will damp out vibrations much more quickly than fiberglass but graphite will transmit the vibrations more readily than fiberglass because graphite has higher elasticity and lower mass than fiberglass.
Basically the low damping factor means that the nature of cork is such that any vibrations will be initially transmitted but then the kinetic energy in the vibrations will quickly be converted to heat and dissipated.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2007 03:52PM by Emory Harry.

Cork is also used in sound studios the absorb sound (vibration) transfer. Used in floors to deaden noise form one floor to the next.

Here are some excerpts from web sites that use cork for things other then rods.

"Vibration and sound absorbency. This is because the air filled cells compress and therefore soak up some of the energy that is being transmitted through them'

"Flooring. Due to its ability to insulate well, and not transmit energy, cork flooring (usually sold in the form of tiles) has gained a reasonable market share. The sound and vibration insulation of cork is also far superior to that of a similar product, ceramic tiles (Industries Assistance Commission 1981)."

"Sound barriers—neighbor's noise out and teenager's music racket in Vibration reducer—vibration pads for large machinery"


It just seems funny to me that almost every other industry that uses cork uses it for the purpose of stopping sound of deadening vibration. But then it's claimed to be the most sensitive stuff to use on rods




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2007 03:49PM by Steve Gardner.