I understand line rating for fly rods well enough and can determine which to use for various size fish. But spinning/casting rods are designated by line size, lure weight, and power rating. And to me, line size seems less significant since the lure weight is what loads the rod for casting. That leaves the power rating which must be the determining factor for fish species.

I'm going to need a short rod for two really small Steelhead streams so can I use any of the following for Steelhead?

- 6' 6" Rainshadow ISB783 Spin Bass, 10-17 line, 5/16-3/4 lure, MH power

- 7' Rainshadow IP844F Popping blank, 8-17 line, 1/4-3/4 lure, MH power

- 7' Rainshadow ISP844-3 Multi Purpose, 8-17 line, 3/8-3/4 lure, MH power

I'm trying to understand the different applications such as crank bait, popping, baitcasting, Mag bass, hotshot, etc. And for the 3 blanks listed above, the butt diameters decrease in size at .570, .485, and .445. As far as my offering, I could use a small spawn bag below a sliding lead weight, a single egg pattern, or drift a waxworm under a small float.

So for Steelhead, I assume the order of importance in selecting a short Steelhead blank would be - power, lure weight, then line size. Would either of these blanks be suitable for Steelhead in small streams or am I mssing something yet? Thanks.

Another reason the manufacturers should adopt the CCS for their rod power ratings. After all, what the heck does "Medium Heavy" power really mean?

The best you can do is familiarize yourself with the Rainshadow line and get some idea what they consider a MH power rod. Then you can match the power of the rod against the average fish you're likely to encounter.

From the blanks you list above, all are going to be fairly close in overall power. The 783 will give you a little more leverage against the fish.

Obviously, you want the right amount of tip power to cast the lures you're most likely to cast.

I woudn't worry too much about the line size rating. It's the least important and least scientific of any rating given to rod blanks.

..................

Tim,

From the specs of these blank, they apprear to me that they will be like pool cues with eyelits on them. I have felt many 6'-7' rods trated to 17# line and they are STIFF. So like you said casting the intended bait.lure etc. plays a huge role.

I wish I could help ya on the mag-bass/ crankbait etc, I know of a couple diferences. One being that where the rod flexes being the number one difference. Some rods withsame line rating, but different types (hot-shot/popping etc.) flex at different locations due to the intended type of fishing and lures that will be uesd with the rod.

I personal belief is that the blank above are a little heavy for small streams unless you have to pull fish out of the log jams once hooked. Also, fishing a spinning reel may also be easier with these stiff rods compared to a casting reel-but that may be a matter of personnal prefernce. Also, if you live around the Great Lakes area, generally speaking now, Steelies have a tendancy to be a just a little smaller than there West Coast siblings. So a 17 # MH power rod may be a little over kill. But, it would still work. My suggestion would be to take each of these blanks and shake rattle and roll them to see what YOU personally like. I would primarily base my purchase on that first and foremost. If i liked a mag-bass type of rod and used it for steelies in that little creek, then great...

Also, I personally don't think that fish species plays as big of a role in "power" rating as does the two most often and overlooked varibales when picking a flyrod weight-and that is:
1. Depth of water.
2. Speed of current.

Example: A 10# Coho Salmon can be fought all day long off the pier in the Great Lakes with most 7 wt. (I prefer 9wts just because of casting large flies.) Now, take that same fish, and fight it in a fast,dep river and that 7 wt feels like your "undergunned".

I hope the above rant makes sense to ya Tim, and good luck.

Paul

I'm with Paul.
Any fish in the water weighs nothing, he after all is neutrally buoyant ,floating about right?
The environment you are fishing him in and how far the species is likely to run is most important in determining line weight. Use no heavier line than is needed to get the job done.
That said I don't think you need to go any heavier than a 3 power in the IP or ISP blanks. I wouldn't use the ISB blank for this.
With steelhead line size is all important with the presentations you are using, the correct, natural presentation is decided in the most part by a light, limp line and the angle of the line in relation to the current seam, slot or pocket you're fishing. The less deviation from vertical the less weight needed to get to the bottom because there is less current pushing on the line which affects the bait/lure's speed/presentation in relation to the rest of the stream.
Usually you'll see, and I'll use, longer rods for your presentations even in small stream because of this. It's when you use spinners, plugs or spoons that can more precisely pick apart logjams, snags, low tree limbs/brush, and are more of an attractant or agitation that they want out of their lie, that you can use shorter rods and heavier line without affecting your chances of hooking a steelhead. These work better here because the weight and lure are one and therefore you don't have to worry about the leader length/bait decreasing accuracy, as they are seperate from the weight and land and fish/snag up where they will.
One compromise blank to look at might be something like the IST993 Rainshadow blank.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2007 10:20AM by Spencer Phipps.

Thanks guys, this is starting to make sense to me now. Actually, I rarely use line heavier than 12# and my Siglon diameter-wise resembles closer to 10#. The Big Manistee here in Michigan is known for some really deep holes and runs and a really strong current so I always use plenty of rod for Steelhead and Salmon here. But two smaller rivers.streams that are keepers are the Betsie and the Platte. The Betsie is hardly 15' - 20' across in places, and not much more than 3'-5' deep and doesn't have a powerful current. The Platte is even narrower (and becoming one of my favorite) and is rather shallow in the 1-2 foot range with small 3' -4' runs at times. Sight fishing would be the norm on the Platte and there is alot of trees and plants making any type of casting a real problem. My intension was with my casting reel was to hold the rod into the stream with a float and just let free-willy down to the holding fish. So evidentally from what I gather then is I don't need a "whooping stick" for this type of fishing. Thanks again for the help and direction.

Tim- All three of those rods will work. I use the IP series as a plug rod and it works well. I even had to drift fish with it on one trip due to unforeseen circumstances and managed a nice fish. However I am with the others when I suggest trying something a little longer and lighter like the IST993. However If you have ample steelheading experience in your area and 7' rods with lots of power are what will work best then I suggest looking at the Hotshot series. Particularly the Rainshadow HS900 or 901I have found that hotshot blanks have the feel of more power then blanks with the same line rating in other series. This power can be helpful if you need to control a fish to keep it out of logs or other snags.
Here are a few questions that may help you with your decision
1 how brushy are the streams you will fish?
2 how often do you break fish off
3 what happens when you do break fish off ie. the fish got in a snag.
If you didn't answer brushy, often and most of the time to these three questions then a longer lighter rod might be the ticket.

Thanks John, actually I have about 5-6 rods altogether that I can use for Steelhead and more are 10'6" or more although i do have a GLoomis 8 1/2' that I could use. My problem with these two rivers I want to fish is I have NO ROOM. I'm thinking 7' would really be my limit and I need to keep them from tearing downstream/upstream catching snags. If my 6# flurocarbon breaks then I have no problem with that. I just don't want them to head for cover and me not be able to move them around somewhat and try to keep them clear of logs, etc. Thanks.

Tim,
The more info you give the more I think the ISB822.5 Rainshadow may be your blank. It has a light tip that wouldn't need much room to load up, loads progressive enough to help protect your 6 lb line and has enough backbone for the job. It's the blank I made my new wife's "Do It All " rod off of.

I fished the Betsy when we lived there in the late '70s-early 80's, and again a few years ago on a vacation. Caught my first steelhead just a mile or some below the wier. Also worked some small rivers around the Tippee Dam area - clear enough to see the pebbles on the bottom, and see the steelhead on the beds (and the salmon too). And cold enough to give you a good case of hypothermia when you stepped off the bar into a hole.

But I digress. We used 8wt flyrods, usually around 9ft, with 10lb tippets or smaller (the heaviest we could get away with for the water conditions and color), drifting spawnbags on a treble-swivel dropper rig, or weighted steelhead or a variety of salmon flies through the holes. When we used spinning gear it was 7' or 8' rods, 8-12lb line, and the rods were suited to the weight of lure - you needed a flexible, fast tip to flip a spawnbag across stream or upstream. The casts were rarely more than 30yds because the rivers weren't that wide, and the distance to the next bend wasn't that far. The trick was to drift the bait downstream and feel the dropper ticking bottom, so the tip had to be relatively sensitive, so we often built spinning rods on fly blanks. No "noodles" though - you couldn't fool with the fish in those waters once hooked, because there was no room for it.

With today's much improved blanks, some of my friends currently use 8 or 10lb mainline and 8 or 10lb leaders for this, on 8 or 9' light-salmon sticks. Hope that helps - - -

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods
Calico Creek Rods