Lately I have tried to create some of the holo/tiger wraps that appear in the last issue of RodMaker magazine – with some pretty decent success. I was able to make the wraps turn out fairly well and the wrap took on the tiger/holo effect as desired.

OK, so this isn’t really about the wraps themselves – but while attempting to create holo/tiger wraps, a huge defect in my workmanship comes out.

Now that I am creating longer lengths of thread along my rods – I also need to cover longer sections with epoxy. Herein lies my problem.

I have been spending quite a bit of time on each of my rods. Quite a few hours on each to be sure. And I believe that my rods are beginning to look fairly decent. I’m improving my trim wraps and learning some techniques that improve my overall look.

But then – I get to the point where I need to apply the epoxy. Up to this point I have only been adding epoxy that rarely covers more than about 1” (at the most) along the length of the rod. I cover guide wraps and sometimes a decal. Now that I have been making holo/trim wraps I need to cover a much longer length of wrap – maybe up to 5”-6” or so.

After I apply the longer lengths of epoxy to my rods, they take on a very juvenile appearance – because the epoxy isn’t completely level. I use heat (I believe appropriately) and I spend a lot of time on each wrap. I am able to get my epoxy almost level. But almost isn’t good enough. Even if there are only 2 or 3 waves of epoxy or 2 or 3 places where it isn’t quite level along a 4”-5” length of rod – the rod looks very “rookie” in appearance.

Even when I look at the low-end rods on sale at Wally World or the corner sporting goods store – those rods have a better appearance than my final outcome, simply because they have level and consistent epoxy. I want my rods to look decent and I want to be proud of them. I’m getting to a point where my color selections and my thread workmanship look pretty good in most cases. But then I seem to ruin the overall final appearance of my rod, because I am unable to get the final longer coat of epoxy to lie down completely level.

Do most people who have professional looking results use a long stainless steel spatula or a special tool to insure that the entire length of epoxy is level? Even though I take a lot of time and care - do I just need to put more time in before I am able to completely level out my epoxy?

Can anyone give me a couple pointers that I can use to sit down at my table and apply and adjust to my own skill set that may help me overcome this issue and create a better final appearance?

The trick is to apply one heavy coat and for me to use a brush and apply teh epoxy along the axis of teh rod as opposed to spinning the rod and holding the brush there. I find if I try to apply less at one time and build up 2 or 3 or 5 coats, teh bumps are much worse than if I literally SLOP teh stuff on there with teh brush, get it going on teh motor (40 RPM is what I use) and hit it with the Propane torch. If there are any sags I CAREFULLY remove them with teh brush and reheat that area until teh brush mark is gone.

TAke my word on this - PREACTICE on a scrap blank or wooden dowe. Mix up 3CC of finish and apply teh entire mixture to a 12" area and see how you do. Once YOU figure out a way to get it right for YOURSELF, then you'll be glad you spent teh time figuring it out as opposed to scurrying around trying to decipher who gave you good or bad advice. I guarantee you'll get someone using a Spatula, someone using a credit card, their finger, cheap throw away brushes & $20 Sable brushes. THEY ALL WORK...but you have to figure out what works best for you.

FWIW, Facory rods are done with one single coat, I do not know the application medium, I'd assume a brush.

FWIW & a PS - getting a TRULY perfectly flat finish on a long area, is probably next to impossible. I've yet to see a rod in person which was perfectly flat, there is always a slight wave or bump here and there. Fortuantely nobody soghts down a rod and spins it looking for these imperfections.

Mike,
Factory rods are NOT done with a single heavy coat. At least not the ones that I have watched. I have watched both Lamiglas and Loomis numerous times and they both use two coats. The first coat is a thin coat and the second is a little heavier.
I think that you will also have an easier time and achieve better results if you use two coats as well. The first coat just to soak the threads and it is not critical. The second coat is the one that will determine how level your results are. On the second coat do not put any more epoxy on then is necessary to get a nice smooth finish. If the second coat is too heavy you will tend to get waves in it. It will also tend to get waves if you take too long to get it on the rod and the epoxy starts to thicken.
I usually very lightly make long brush strokes back and forth the length of the wrap immediately after applying the epoxy so as to get it close to level and then apply a little heat.
Keep working at it and you will get good at it. It just takes a little practice.
You can achieve good results by using a single coat but it is a little trickier to so I would work at getting the results I wanted with two coats before attempting a one coat approach.

Many people will work too hard to try to get a finish. Too much time, too much brushing, too much heating, too much finish and a host of other things. I notice you are probably in California. Do a search in the Directory at the top of this page and contact one of the builders listed. One visit to see the established pattern of measuring, mixing, air escape, application and drying will really allow you to see first hand how it is done. There are hundreds of pages on this site for finish application and most of the posts contain very good information. A few minutes watching someone accomplish what you desire will be well worth the time spent.

Hey Emory, when was the last time you saw a Loomis or Lamiglas sold at Walmart?

The answer to one of your questions is in your post.you spend too much time on the application.Rodmaker magazine had a great article on epoxy application.Its worth getting the back issue.



Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Billy,
Did you read what he said? He is struggling with his attempts to get a professional looking finish and said "Even when I look at the low end rods sold at Wally world or the corner sporting goods store-those rods have a better appearance than my final outcome, simply because they have level and consistent epoxy".
And I have seen the low end Lamiglas at Walmart. But the point is that he will have better luck, especially to begin with, if he uses two coats rather than one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2007 08:23PM by Emory Harry.

This is one of the FEW times that I agree with Viviona! The key I think he said weather it be two ore one or what ever is to find a way that works for you. I too struggled with the same as you for a few dozen rods before i got "my way". The key is to get your way and stick with it that way every time. Ok that being said heres my way and now I get professional results every time. 1- Use a good quality finish I very strongly recomend threadmaster. I have bottles of just about everyother brand you can name and they sit on my shelf. I won't use them. 2- I place the bottles in very warm tap water for 5 minutes even though I live in extreme south west florida. 3- I know viv said 3 mm but the smallest amount I will mix is 7mm. Think of it if your 1 mm off in your measuring 7 it will make little diference as apposed to 3 mm. 4- I coat with one coat and apply with a brush very heavy but fast on a 30 rpm spin. just get it on fast while its flowwing quickly. I don't paint as much as flow it on. If your quick and get a heavy enough coat on it levels its self. If you find it getting any thicker at all stop your too slow and wait for it to dry and do another coat. Really though I never let it get that far. 5- if I have bubbles which I usually don't because I use a electric mixer I will trch just enough too get rid of the bubbles. I will repeat though fo0r me the trick too stasrt with Is the THREADMASTER!!!!!! tHAT AND FIND WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND STICK WITH IT!!!

mIKe send me a E-mail at broderick6@comcast.net Yours is not listed and I have something you need to help you get perfect results every time.

Mike, I'm right in the same boat. I'm still in the process of doing epoxy on a 16 inch butt wrap. Trying and trying to get all the waves and bumps out will certainly make your babies be born naked. But I have done this to mine. The epoxy on this rod was fairly thick due to all the times of trying to make things look good. So I took a sanding block, put wet and dry 400 grit sandpaper on and started to lightly sand the complete lenght of the wrap. Put masking tape around the end of the fore grip and the other end of the wrap to protect them in case of a slip. I used alittle water and all of the waves and bumps disapeared till I had a nice level wrap. BE CAREFUL not to sand down into your wrap. I just go in some Threadmaster Lite that I'm going to try as a final coat.
Hope this helps.

Terry

TErry, if you know you have enough finish on teh threads you can sand with 180 & 220, then come back to put that coat of finish on top. I used to finish all my rods like this, it works very weel an dI still use it when I have a wrap which high high and low points causing hills & valley's in the finish.

Billy, if you only agree with me a FEW times, that's a good thing. I'm known to give out poor information.

Depending on the viscosity of the finish, it can only support so much of iteself before lumps and sags form, which then are rotated all around the circumference of the wrap.

So try putting on less. If it takes two coats to get the depth you need, then use two coats. Or three even.

............

Billy Not necessary the info just the attitude that comes with the information that I can have a problem with.

Billy B,The attitude is a New York/New Jersey term of affection.We cuss each other out here as a greeting.Sort of like the Soprannos with out the crime.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Ah, some new ideas and thoughts and different procedures! That's what I was hoping for!

Up to now I have been kind of working backwards from what appears to be a process that many others are suggesting. I have been going slower and slower in my attempts to get my workmanship better. I've also been mixing smaller and smaller amounts of epoxy and spending more and more time on each individual wrap - the thought being that I was giving more attention to each wrap, thereby attempting to perfect each wrap individually.

It would seem that in doing so I may be mixing amounts of epoxy that are too small to be properly effective. I do not have problems with bubbles (knock on wood) and my epoxy seems to harden quite well and form a good solid finish - but perhaps this is affecting my application process. I never thought of it that way.

I have been using FC as my finish and I have an order placed for Threadmaster, which has not yet arrived. However, I definitely did NOT want to use this as my excuse for a less than average outcome. Rod makers have been doing this for decades without advanced technology or "upgraded" epoxies and they have had good results.

I have yet to try putting on one thicker coat for my first and/or only coat. I have always started with a thinner coat and then placed consecutive coats over it (after usually at least 24 hrs of drying time in between). While this may work for some, it would appear that this isn't working for me. I'll give the thicker coat method a try. If that isn't working after a period of time I'm hoping that I can come to a happy medium.

Another common thread that I'm seeing is that some people use a faster turning speed. I have a Pac Bay rod lathe that I use. The smaller motor turns at either 4 or 6 RPM (I don't remember which) and that is how I have been applying and turning my epoxy. I think that I'll try the faster RPM and see what that does for me.

It would appear that I need to speed up my process in more ways than one!

This forum thread has worked very well for me. Thank you ALL for your input. I got EXACTLY what I was looking for - which is more and diverse techniques and ideas. I can take from each idea and adapt them to what works best for me. Thank you all very much for your input.

And oh yeah - I see that someone noticed that I am now in California. Please though..... I prefer to be referred to as a temporarily displaced Coloradoan! :)

Being a born and bread Red Sox lovin bake bean eating boston blue blood I have a hard time with that. Where I come from you treat with respect and not sarcasm and put downs.

Well, the fact you're a Red Sox fans says it all. The level of sarcasm displayed on this board is teeny weeny compared to what it is elsewhere. If you can't laugh at yourself...well then I'll laugh at you for you, lol.

Regarding drying speed - the slower it turns and teh more finish you apply at one time, the more it will sag & form a bump.lump. THE faster it spins and teh more you put on, the more it tends to travel up guide frame legs, up foregrips, and will form lumps art teh edges or footballs at teh center of teh wrap if you thin teh finish too much. Centrifical force or something, although I'm sure I used teh wrong scientific name so Emory will be correcting me soon enough. I wouldn't go nuts looking for a fast motor, if you feel you need a faster motor I would look to get one 18RPM, as I think that is the most common speed used.

You're on teh right track, you recognize an area which you need work on, adn are searching for a better way. Just put the time in and practice and all of a sudden it will click.

Putting on the right amount of finish the entire length of the wrap is the key. I don't know anyone who can do that without putting a bit extra on and taking off that extra after it's started to sag under the rod. On short wraps, it can be done. On the longer wraps, putting somewhat too much on (doesn't need to be greatly overdone) and then removing the proper amount of excess is the key. Removing too much in an area and you're right back to the "waves and bumps" syndrome.

But what Billy V. is harping on is the key. Practicing and fine tuning something that works for YOU is what is needed. It doesn't happen the first time out of the chute.

Any finish will work well for you if you work with it. They'll all give a near-perfect, level finish once a person works with them for a while. Some are easier for one guy to work with, others for the next guy. The technique each person uses fits some brands of finishes' quirks and qualities and doesn't work worth a hoot with another brand's little attributes.

Putter
Williston, ND

Billy Broderick,
While we may not agree on how to apply epoxy I could not agree more with your last sentence. I do not think that coming from New York is a license to be offensive or ill mannered.

Mike,
I do not think that the Flex Coat is your problem nor is the speed of your dryer. I build a couple of hundred rods a year using Flex Coat and have for a lot of years and have been very satisfied with it. In reading your posts a second time I suspect that part of your problem may be that you are taking too long to get the epoxy on. Once the epoxy starts to thicken just a little then it will not level out as well. Whether you decide to use one coat or two, Flex Coat or Threadmaster, mix enough to cover the whole area that you are planning to cover and then get it on without any delay, level it out with a few horizontal brush strokes, hit it with a little heat if there are any bubbles and then leave it alone on your dryer and I think that you will solve most of your problems.

God, I am almost afraid to step into this one but I really had trouble with this myself. I haven't built that many rods so take that into consideration. But I found the thing that helped me the most was as Billy said don't let the rod turn. Apply the epoxy lenght ways along the rod spreading it from one end of the warp to the other. I have had better luck using two coats but that may be because I like the thinner coats anyway and have just always done it that way. I use a brush and once I get to the end I will heat it just a touch than stop the rod and let it sage to one side taking off any high spots. But the point about working it to much is true. Put it on, take off what you can and let it go.